Politricks’ and the English Language

Having barely scraped through high school English, I really didn’t understand the importance of language, until I became a printer and graphic artist.  I learned that errors in language can cost money, in fact small typos have cost me thousands of dollars!

So it is with chagrin that I have been watching the English language degrade to the point of being unrecognizable at times.  The truth is that you can play games with language, and deceptive use of language can, and does, lead people into traps!

Communication is far more important than most people imagine, and without it lives can be lost, and money and time wasted.  It is not okay to use a word that is sort-of-like the word you actually mean, you need to use the actual word itself!

The following article appeared on Pajamas Media this last week and it is so good I just needed to repost it.

‘Politricks’ and the English Language

In betraying language, Western progressives have betrayed the world of thought and the culture of freedom.

by
DAVID SOLWAY
Bio
November 27, 2014 – 10:27 pm

An infallible sign of cognitive degradation is the mutilation of language, a phenomenon that is becoming increasingly widespread in the current (anti) intellectual milieu. What George Orwell despaired of in the chronic usages of political language in his 1946 essay “Politics and the English Language“—it is “designed to make lies truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind”—seems even more so today. Orwell’s “six rules” for good writing are not so much the issue here, and some of these have been ably contested by reputable authors. But he is right when he says that clear thinking “is a necessary first step toward political regeneration.” Poor thinking corrupts language; slovenly language corrupts thinking—and the inevitable result of these twin perversions is moral corruption and political barbarism.

Of course, one frequently comes across in the political writing of both the left and the right, “progressivists” and conservatives, all manner of less degrading blemishes — grammatical solecisms, logical infelicities, bad paragraphing, sloppy editing practices generating an abundance of typos (my favorites: the “Untied States,” the “Pubic Wars”), and the like. This is to be expected in the Age of the Internet, when one writes an article in the morning and posts it in the afternoon, rather than submit it to several days’ worth of revision. The Age of Rapidly Breaking News leads to critically broken prose. That we also live in the Age of Declining Educational Standards in which rigorous language training — spelling, punctuation, vocabulary, grammatical concinnity, reading with understanding — has gone by the board and in which the Image has come to predominate over the Word almost guarantees that far too many professional journalists and bloggers can no longer write properly – which means that they can no longer think coherently or even string two or three sentences into a meaningful thought-unit.
But such misfortunes seem like mere peccadilloes when compared to the willful devastation of language used almost exclusively for the transmission of lies and the practice of slander rather than for disciplined argument and conveying empirical verities. Regrettably, linguistic debasement has always been a mainstay of political discourse, whether for “reasons of state,” military purposes, electoral advantage, self-promotion, or the arts of persuasion. What we might call “word deformation” is a staple of political life and should not surprise us.

It must also be said that the receiver of the message is equally complicit with the sender, having put his critical faculties to sleep and accepted the eidolon for the thought. The legions of the credulous are ready to take it all in, crook, crime and stinker. Fiction and subterfuge serve the strategic purpose of convincing a pampered and affluent society of its moral virtue, as James Burnham points out in Suicide of the West, “by affirming [its] loyalty to the correct egalitarian principles…without costing undue personal inconvenience.” In other words, we need to feel good about what we feel bad about. We accomplish this feat by a kind of moral polarity, reversing the actual valence of objects or events in order to represent what they are not, and thus sparing ourselves the need to examine our motives, make genuine sacrifices, grapple with disagreeable issues and actively seek out truth.

There are, however, degrees of semantic depravity. Its most malignant form is inexorably associated with totalitarian regimes, wholly invested in the dissemination of what Goebbels called “the Big Lie,” the suppression or vitiation of truth and the inflation of its opposite as a systemic function of both governance and statecraft. Orwell’s 1984 is the classic text in the study and exposure of totalitarian discourse, though it is a mistake to read the book solely as an example of dystopian fiction or as a cautionary tale. It is a mirror held up to the actual practice of tyrannical and oppressively monolithic regimes. In recent historical times we have seen its pestilential force in fascist, communist and theo-political systems of mind-control: Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and now triumphalist Islam.

This, too, should not surprise us. But what should not cease to astonish is the extent to which the language sickness has spread to the democratic West. Far from a mere aberration or an occupational hazard, the Big Lie has been installed among us as the primary form of political and cultural address along the entire gamut of disinformation, from outright interment of fact and customizing of inconvenient truths to unmitigated calumny and virulent libel. The Western media and the “progressivist” left-liberal political class have, over the years, incrementally adopted the discursive techniques of totalitarian states and theocratic dispensations.

One sees the neutralizing or flattening of language intended to mislead especially with regard to Islam. Muslim rapists and felons in the UK and Scandinavia are routinely referred to as “Asians”—a demographic blend that serves as a linguistic cowcatcher sweeping law-abiding Korean, Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and Filipino immigrants into its purview. The distinction between “Islamic” and “Islamist” is another such evasion. A recent column in the National Post, relying on the default position of the MSM, speaks of “the perverted values governing entire Islamist-dominated regimes” (italics mine). But where are such “Islamist” regimes to be found? Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, Indonesia, Algeria, Morocco, Mali, Syria, Iraq, Hizbollah/Lebanon and Iran, among the 49 Muslim-majority countries in the world, are not Islamist regimes, but self-avowedly Islamic. Indeed, Pakistan designates itself officially as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, not the Islamist Republic of Pakistan. Iran is the Islamic Republic of Iran, not the Islamist Republic of Iran. The terror regime that now controls one third of Iraq calls itself the Islamic State, not the Islamist State.

What, then, is Islamism? According to Daniel Pipes, Islamism is “the radical Islamic impulse to apply Sharia.” However, despite a process of re-interpretation and adaptation to changing circumstances over time, the application of Sharia — that is, Islamic law — is mandated in the Koran and constitutes the solemn duty of every believing Muslim. It is not radical but canonical. That many Muslims are indifferent to the command, or seek to edulcorate it, changes nothing; it is “on the books” and will remain in force or constantly be revived when it is neglected. Islam, not Islamism, is the source of Sharia law and the fount of all that we reprehend as radical or extreme or, as our Procrustean Bowdlerizers like to say, “anti-Islamic.” As Diana West puts it, the “anti-Christianity, anti-Judaism law under consideration here is itself Islamic — as quintessentially Islamic as the prayers themselves…sharia is the codifed mainstay of Islam.” Note: of Islam, not Islamism. It behooves us to get the language right. Are we so timorous that our greatest fear is of contravening the detours of political correctness — the technique of evasion — rather than of an adversary who aims to destroy us, whether through terror or demography? I confess that I am still hunting in vain for a credible definition of “Islamism” or for that mysterious entity known as an “Islamist.”

The slippery slope has now become a precipitous cliff-face. We note how academia has come to resemble the German universities of the 1930s, centers not of learning and scholarship but of political indoctrination. Our media outlets are like the Pravdas and Izvestias of the Soviet Union but to a more effective degree, since they operate under the guise of freedom and openness, thus deceiving a lazy and gullible clientele unaware that “News” has morphed into propaganda. The occupant of the most powerful office in the world, the American presidency, is the living incarnation of the Prince of Lies (the latest in an endless series of lies being that the Ebola virus is definitely not airborne and that the U.S. will not put boots on the ground in Iraq) and yet he continues to energize his electoral base and wealthy donors with an appealing façade and typically suave rhetoric. And the political elite with its hangers-on — feminists, race mongers, journalists, “pro-choicers,” radical bloggers, anti-Zionists, “social justice” activists, community organizers, liberation theologians — no longer even try, for the most part, to engage in argument and honest debate but have resorted to a broad range of rhetorical expedients: barefaced falsehoods, gross defamation, character assassination, crude hyperbole, and flagrant vulgarity. So much for the public conversation of ideas. Saul Alinsky would be proud.

One comes across innumerable instances of such malpractice every day. Just one hour of desultory Internet scanning yielded the following:

  • John Kerry, another master of mendacity, informs the world that global warming (the greatest scam of the modern age) is a more “fearsome threat” than Ebola or ISIS.
  • A Kuwaiti imam delivers a khutbah in which he affirms that ISIS is selling women, young girls and children to the Israelis.
  • MSNBC airs a segment in which Republicans are blamed for the outbreak of Ebola in the U.S.
  • Texas Democrat Wendy Davis publishes a wheelchair ad targeting rival gubernatorial candidate Greg Abbott, who is paralyzed from the waist down. Shades of Texas state Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer, who said at a state Democratic convention that the GOP stands for “gringos y otras pendagos,” or “white and other assholes”; informed that Abbott was in attendance he replied “if I had known that I would told [sic] him directly to his face.” (Interestingly, Abbott’s wife is Mexican American.)
  • The blog Another angry woman instructs us that we live in a culture of gendered violence and that the patriarchy “oppresses the f**k out of women.”
    A feminist video site employs young girls, who look to be about five or six years old, launching a barrage of F-words to further the cause.
  • Mustafa Hussein, aka Theodore Barrett, a convicted child molester helping to foment the Ferguson race riots, is the subject of “fawning, gushing profiles by NPR, Washington Post, Huffington Post, MSNBC, Bloomberg, and the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.”
  • Feminist diva Sarah Silverman attempts to justify voter fraud to benefit Obama and the Democrats, brazenly asserting that “lawmakers are trying to f**k you in your assho**s”; not content with concealing the fact that photo ID is required for almost every official transaction in the public sphere, Silverman proceeds to pound the drum for unlimited abortion rights, entertains an encouraging visit from “Jesus fu**ing Christ,” deplores that women seeking abortions are “forced to look at an ultrasound of the foetus” (horror of horrors); and continues to fracture language with a blizzard of jargony “likes” and generous dollops of sleaze and smut.
  • South Carolina Democrat gubernatorial candidate state Senator Vincent Sheheen tells supporters re. his opponent Republican governor Nikki Haley, “We are going to escort whore…her…out the door.” A gaffe? A Freudian slip, perhaps, but judging from Shaheen’s pleased laughter, one that points to a real sentiment.
  • A brilliant and passionate Rosh Hashanah sermon by Rabbi Shalom Lewis of Marietta, Georgia, anatomizing the spread of evil in our time, in which every sentence contains a lode of verifiable truth, is met by a cyber onslaught of obloquy, vile assertions, character innuendo, and lies of consummate vulgarity, while no attempt is made to rebut the rabbi’s claims with rational or evidentiary counter-arguments.

One recalls late French ambassador Daniel Bernard, a socialist of impeccable credentials, who rose to the heights of analytical brilliance and coruscating eloquence in his assessment of international complexities by proclaiming that “all the current troubles in the world are because of that sh**ty little country Israel.” Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

This from an hour’s worth of random Internet surfing. There are slip-ups on the right as well, obviously: the occasional use of intemperate language and defamatory episodes during in-house controversies, which I deplore but which are, thankfully, comparatively infrequent. Nonetheless, as Andrew Klavan consulting the Leftese dictionary has explained, “We stodgy conservatives are mired in the old-fashioned practice of using language to convey thoughts and ideas, but zippy, forward-looking, youth-oriented leftists use words that aren’t weighed down by things like ‘meaning,’ or ‘sense.’” For the liberal-left and its special-interest minions, the main purpose of language is to revile opponents, to bury or re-valence the truth and to convey fables and forgeries in its stead — for which, as Al Sharpton has richly demonstrated, bad grammar and tortured English are no impediments.

But the dilemma goes deeper than that, even among those who are capable of writing passable prose or speaking articulately. New York Times columnists Paul Krugman (solve the debt problem by creating more debt) and Tom Friedman (Israel employs “Hamas Rules” in Gaza and Lebanon) are good illustrations of reality-challenged ideologues blinded by their own preconceptions, plainly several bubbles off level. Islamic apologist Reza Aslan is another case in point, a man who, as Sam Harris writes, “cannot possibly believe what he says, because nearly everything he says is a lie or a half-truth calibrated to mislead a liberal audience. If he claims something isn’t in the Koran, it probably is.” Others like actor Ben Affleck, who appeared on Bill Maher’s Real Time interview panel with Harris, simply don’t know what they are talking about, trading in ignorant mystifications whereby words signal or attach to personally held concepts, prejudices or assumptions rather than to anything in the real world of political affairs.

In other words, the fundamental grammar of thought itself has been decoupled from the real world, floating off into the realms of fantasy and ideological semiotics — a mental field comprising the four states of myopia, ignorance, bias and deception — where the linkage between idea and fact has been thoroughly supplanted by a false vinculum, that is, by a connection between a signifier and a figment (what I like to call the Sigfig Nexus), an expression and a distortion, agitprop and illusion, a word and a non-thing — to say, as Swift put it in the Fourth Book of Gulliver’s Travels, “the thing which is not.” This species of cognitive transgression goes beyond Aristotle’s laws of thought in which “A” cannot equal “not-A.” Aristotle was concerned with logic, not duplicity, with non-contradiction, not deception. In the latter case, “A” is not meant only to equal “not-A”; “A” is also meant to equal zero. It says the thing which is not. In today’s “progressivist” milieu, the lie has become not merely a promiscuous aspect of discourse; it has become the essence of discourse. We see how well it functions in the recent practice of legislative Gruberism.

The term “progressive” or “progressivist” as currently plied assumes that ethical progress is historically determined, in other words, relying on the Marxist model, that it is a kind of dialectical moralism. Klavan illustrates by showing how the “idea of progress is built into another left wing phrase, ‘the 21st Century.’ In leftese, the 21st century means a magical place of peace and enlightenment. The phrase is found in such leftese sentences as ‘Putin can’t just conquer Crimea, this is the 21st century,’ or ‘No religion wants to behead non-believers and enslave women anymore. This is the 21st century.’ When this wonderful 21st century will actually occur is anyone’s guess. Probably not for hundreds of years. In the meantime, the phrase can be usefully employed instead of taking meaningful action.” Progressivism has institutionalized a parallel, disjunctive language that says the opposite of what is the case or asserts the thing which is not, in the interests of ideological bracketing. As David Gelernter laments in the Weekly Standard, the “victory of brainless ideology is on the brink of becoming institutionalized” — if it has not already. Gelernter is alluding to the ravages of the “feminist incubator,” but his dirge applies to “progressivism” in general.

At the farther end of this sliding scale of linguistic derailment, this campaign against truth, we find what is fast becoming the dirty shirt of ostensibly discursive garb; that is, the response to researched and lucid argument not only with deliberate fabrications but with volleys of obscenity, ranging from invective and insinuation to ad hominem attacks and the most sordid of profanities. Such is the language of the left, manipulating the lie in all its forms (omission, misrepresentation, exaggeration) and culminating in verbal assault and battery — all tried and tested means of avoiding rational debate and informed discussion.

Once language has been so thoroughly denatured, poisoning the wells of communication and rendering truth an archaic remnant of political nostalgia, the prospects for the recovery of honor, health and strength in a society fade into Spenglerian darkness. Western intellectuals, academics, journalists, politicians and civic leaders have learned from the West’s ideological enemies, having mastered the science of the Big Lie. And in betraying language, they have betrayed the world of thought and the culture of freedom, hawking the tainted wares of a demonic illiteracy.

___________________________________________________________________________

Note: A separate but related issue has to do with high levels of immigration. The 2013 American Community Survey (ACS) reports that 21% of U.S. residents speak a language other than English at home. Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, worries that “allowing in over 1 million new legal immigrants a year and to a lesser extent tolerating illegal immigration has important implications for preserving a common language.” However, as we have seen, the “common language” has already been blighted and debauched both by those who are partially agraphic and given to scatology as well as those who can write and speak intelligibly but put their facility in the service of chicanery and dissimulation. Many are merely foot soldiers and language goons; others occupy positions of authority and influence. This is the left’s poisoned gift to the “common language.”
David Solway is a Canadian poet and essayist. He is the author of The Big Lie: On Terror, Antisemitism, and Identity, and is currently working on a sequel, Living in the Valley of Shmoon. His new book on Jewish and Israeli themes, Hear, O Israel!, was released by Mantua Books. His latest book is The Boxthorn Tree, published in December 2012. Visit his Website at www.davidsolway.com.

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Violence in Ferguson Planned well in advance

News media are reporting that the violence in Ferguson, Missouri, was a “reaction” to the grand jury announcement that there would be no charges in the shooting death of Michael Brown, back in August.  As the author points out, the violence was preventable, but it looks like someone in high places wanted a spectacle.

This article was originally published by christianpatriots.org

We do indeed live in the days Paul spoke of in II Timothy 3:1

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.”

Did They Want More Violence In Ferguson? 10 ‘Coincidences’ Too Glaring To Ignore

Ferguson-Civil-Unrest-Photo-by-Loavesofbread

Was it a conspiracy or was it incompetence?  Those appear to be the only two alternatives that we are left with after the horrific violence that we witnessed in Ferguson on Monday night.  The first round of Ferguson rioting back in August took everyone by surprise, but this time authorities had more than three months to prepare.  They had the ability to control precisely when the grand jury decision would be announced and how many cops and National Guard troops would be deployed on the streets.  But despite all this, the violence in Ferguson on Monday night was even worse than we witnessed back in August.  Either this was a case of almost unbelievable incompetence, or there was someone out there that actually wanted this to happen.  If someone out there is actually trying to provoke more violence in Ferguson, then the rioters are being played like a fiddle.  Most of them have no idea that they could potentially just be pawns in a game that is far larger than they ever imagined.  The only other alternative to explain what we just saw is incompetence on a level that is absolutely laughable.  Something definitely does not smell right about all of this, and let us hope that at some point the American people get the truth.  The following are 10 “coincidences” from Monday night in Ferguson that are too glaring to ignore…

#1 Federal, state and local law enforcement authorities had more than three months to prepare for the violence that would follow the announcement of the grand jury decision.  The mainstream media endlessly hyped this controversy and everyone knew that trouble would be brewing.  But despite an enormous amount of time to prepare, very little was actually done to prevent any violence from happening.

#2 Someone made the decision to make the public announcement about the grand jury decision in the evening.  Anyone involved in law enforcement knows that crowd control is far more difficult after dark.  This also ensured that instead of being tied up with work or school, a maximum number of protesters would be able to be involved in the violence.

#3 Fortunately for the mainstream media, the announcement of the grand jury decision was perfectly timed to provide the largest possible number of prime time viewers for the big news networks.

#4 Just like back in August, no law enforcement authorities of any kind responded while dozens of businesses were vandalized, looted and set of fire.

#5 According to Ferguson Mayor James Knowles, National Guard troops were purposely held back from intervening in the rioting that was unleashed when the grand jury decision was made known to the public…

In a press conference, he called the delay “deeply concerning” and said the Guard troops were available but were not deployed when city officials asked.

The troops had been readied last week by Gov. Jay Nixon as the grand jury announcement neared. But as gunshots rang out in the night and looters torched buildings, they were nowhere to be seen.

#6 It is being reported that the heavily armed National Guard troops were limited to “keeping the peace at a courthouse, patrolling the outskirts of town and preventing disturbances in other suburbs” as horrific violence raged in the heart of Ferguson on Monday night.

#7 Missouri Lieutenant Governor Peter Kinder has accused Missouri Governor Jay Nixon of holding back the National Guard troops because of pressure from the Obama administration.  On Monday night, he angrily made the following statement to Fox News…

“Is the reason that the National Guard was not in there because the Obama Administration and the Holder Justice Department leaned on you to keep them out? I cannot imagine any other reason why the governor who mobilized the National Guard would not have them in there to stop this.”

#8 The Washington Post has documented that Attorney General Eric Holder had been in direct contact with Governor Nixon and had expressed “frustration” with the fact that the National Guard had been activated…

A top aide to Holder called the governor’s office earlier this week to express Holder’s displeasure and “frustration,” according to a Justice Department official.

“Instead of de-escalating the situation, the governor escalated it,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the subject. “He sent the wrong message. The tone of the press conference was counterproductive.”

#9 Firefighters in Ferguson did not immediately respond to calls to put out the multiple fires that were set by protesters.  As a result, many businesses essentially burned to the ground.  But this did make for some amazing television footage.

#10 In the worst of the “war zones”, journalists with cameras and microphones were crawling all over the place while there were hardly any police to be seen at all.  How is it possible that law enforcement could have failed so badly?  Could it be possible that this was orchestrated on purpose?

Sadly, as I have written about previously, the civil unrest that we are witnessing in Ferguson is just a small preview of what is coming to America.

The anger and frustration that are seething under the surface in this country have reached a boiling point.  Instead of coming together, we are seemingly more divided than ever.  Americans have been trained to hate one another, fear one another and blame one another.  I fear that we are not too far away from actually becoming ungovernable.

And when the next major wave of the economic crisis strikes and we start experiencing real suffering in this nation, the temper tantrums that we are going to witness in our major cities are going to make what is happening in Ferguson right now look like a Sunday picnic.

So buckle up and hold on, because it is going to be a really bumpy ride from here on out.

Ferguson is not the end – it is just the beginning of a horrible new chapter in American history.

Written by: MICHAEL SNYDER of THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE

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The Gay Agenda in the Light of the Gospel

Recently the news came out that the openly Lesbian Houston Mayor, Annise Parker, had subpoenaed the sermons of five area pastors. Apparently these pastors had taken a stand against homosexuality and she wanted to find evidence that they had used their pulpits to make political statements.

Amazingly, the sermons in question are available on-line, free to the public.

So, why would she send legal demands for the information?

Obviously this is an attempt to intimidate and silence the opposition, but will it? Since the beginning of the Christian Church, pastors and their sheep have been dragged before kings, presidents, magistrates, and courts, and a great many of those men and women lost their lives for their trouble. Others spent many years in prisons and gulags. Even today there are many Christians locked up in labour camps in China, Saudi Arabia, and other totalitarian states.

So will her tactics work? Not if these are real Christians, and that is the big question. There are a great many pastors who view their status and prestige as more important than taking a stand for the truth. I am so glad that pastor Randy White said “never” to her demands! There is at least one Houston area pastor who has backbone!

But what does the bible say about homosexuality, anyway? There are a great many pastors who say that it is possible to be gay and a Christian at the same time. Does the bible actually say this? Because if it does then the Houston pastors would be wrong, and Ms. Parker would be correct for pursuing them.

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Leviticus 18:22

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:13

Many of those pastors would tell you that “we are not under the law” and therefore Old Testament law no longer applies, during the Church age. Paul did indeed say that we are “not under the law, but under grace”, but this does not mean that God no longer expects obedience. Jesus did say “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:18) God never changes.

Paul, addressing the subject of homosexuality (among other sins) said;

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 1:26-32

And, just in case we didn’t get it, Paul later spoke of homosexuality as a sin committed by the unrighteous;

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-1

There have always been two divisions among homosexuals, those who are somewhat effeminate, and those who appear “hyper-masculine”. Paul is addressing both camps in this epistle. Notice also that these people are grouped with fornicators, idolaters, adulterers thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers (a person who speaks abusively), and extortioners!

God views all of these people in the same way, and all deserve an eternity in the lake of fire! (We could add those who commit every sin in the bible as well; all sinners deserve death and an eternity in hell) The bible also says “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God”(Romans 3:23).

That’s the bad news.

The good news comes in the next verse;

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Yes, there were former homosexuals in the early Christian Church, as well as former fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners. The author, Paul the Apostle, was a former murderer, who had actually led persecutions against the Christian Church (Acts 9:1). Some would excuse him since he had government authority behind him, but if we don’t excuse Nazi butchers, who also had government authority, neither should we excuse Saul of Tarsus. Rather, we can rejoice that God reached down and saved an undeserving sinner.

No doubt people like Annise Parker remember that, at times, people like her were imprisoned, and sometimes put to death, for the sin of homosexuality. And, others suffered social stigma and ostracism. No doubt she remembers that those who did this identified themselves as Christians! Her reaction to pastors who speak out publicly against her lifestyle is understandable.

What a lot of Christians, and even pastors, don’t understand is that the Christian Church is not commanded to take over society.  Our command is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The 1930s Nazi movement in Germany was also full of gays, and they too sent many Christians to the concentrations camps. (not that there were all that many true Christians in Germany at that time). For those who are new to the idea of Nazi homosexuality I would recommend you read “The Pink Swastika” by Lively and Abrams.

How did the Old Testament Jews interpret the passages in Leviticus?

And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel. I Kings 14:24

And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. I Kings 15:11-12

And Jehoshaphat;

And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land. I Kings 22:46

And Josiah, one of the last, and best, kings of Israel, and also a good, God fearing man;

7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove II Kings 23:7

So what should we take from all this evidence? God hates homosexuality just as he hates adultery, fornication, theft, murder, covetousness (envy), and the worship of false gods!

Nation-states have a vested interest in removing homosexuality, since homosexuals do not have children, which the state needs to fuel an economy, and join the armed forces for the nation’s defence.  Everyone gets old and dies, and someone is needed to replace you.

God’s commands to individuals are different than His permissions for nations; a nation may do things that an individual may not, but that nation may be led by lost men who will also spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.  Here is what Paul said when the gay Nero was on the throne of Rome;

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Romans 13:4

We could go back to the same passages in Leviticus and see that a man who had sex with his daughter-in-law was also to be put to death, as was a couple who committed adultery. Children who disobeyed their parents were also to be put to death!

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

There is no evidence that Israel ever obeyed this commandment. But the same God who gave the rest of the bible also gave that one.  Stubborn and rebellious children do indeed deserve death, as to all sinners, but what God wants is repentance, not sacrifice.

Let me also say that in my youth I too was a stubborn and rebellious child. If we put to death all the stubborn and rebellious children, the world would be a very empty place, but God is telling us something about Himself in these passages;

He is telling us that only He is perfect, all humanity has sinned, and all sin is mortal!
We can’t, however just take some biblical passages and apply them without reading the last word from the Giver of the Law, Jesus Christ. Adultery was another sin for which the punishment of the law was death, yet hear the Word of the Lord in this instance;

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:3-7

You need to remember this lesson whenever you read the law. You too are a sinner worthy of death. One who is worthy of death has no business taking the life of another. Those who have received the mercy of God need to be merciful toward other sinners, but at the same time, we need to call sin “sin”!

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

As the story goes on, all her accusers went away, and she was left with the Lord;

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The bible is correct that everyone who sins is worthy of death, but Jesus Christ is also telling us that those who are worthy of death themselves are not qualified to put another sinner to death!

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written,Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Romans 12:19

It is not for Christians to put other sinners to death, or to advocate the death penalty. If you preach the gospel, and the truth about sin they will hate you enough! We are called to preach the truth, but we are not called to force the world into our image! That is the Lord’s job when He returns! And, He will do it perfectly.

At the same time Christians ought to oppose gay marriage, for the simple fact that God instituted marriage between a man and a woman.

Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Matthew 19:4-6

Gay officials, like Houston Mayor Annise Parker, appear to be bullying the Churches out of fear that they might do to her what she would like to do to them. Or perhaps, it is out of fear that given the chance they might do what other “Christians” have done in the past. Maybe it is out of a spirit of vengeance, even though modern Christians are not the ones who did this, but other professing Christians several generations ago.

It is a shame that professing Christians have so frequently ignored the commands of Jesus Christ;

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matthew 5:43-44

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Luke 6:27

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:19-21

See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. I Thessalonians 5:15

The Roman Catholic Church has indeed advocated the death penalty for “heretics” including bible believing Christians, as well as Witches, and homosexuals. There are even some among the protestant churches who would also approve of the death penalty for Witches and homosexuals, as well as Muslims, but we have seen above that Jesus does not approve of such a penalty, and neither did the early Christian Church.

For a Christian, our home is not this planet; “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.” Hebrews 11:13

It is a natural thing to want to do to ISIS, and gay supremacists, the things that they are doing to innocent people. It is natural, but Christians are called to be supernatural.

The aforementioned book “The Pink Swastika” documented some of the abuses that the Gay German Nazis did in the concentration camps in the 1930s and 40s, and they were horrific. They did indeed deserve the wrath of God, and God can, and will, bring judgment on them when He is ready.

Remember that you, too, deserve the wrath of God.

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

You see, Jesus wants to save Anise Parker, and the men and women of ISIS. In God’s eyes their sin is no worse than yours, or mine. They are deviants, and murderers? Yes, but your sin and mine demands the same penalty; Separation from God for all eternity in the Lake of Fire! To God there is no difference between you and me, and Anise Parker, or the men and women of ISIS!

The bible documents how the whole human race is a family. You and Anise Parker have common ancestors. So do you and the people of ISIS. So do the people of ISIS and the Jews.

If you and I believe that Jesus took our sin upon Himself, then how can we withhold such a great gospel from other undeserving sinners? Members of the same family?

Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking you deserved the gospel. You did not! God in His mercy reached down and made an effort to get unworthy sinners to repent! It is not about you, but about Him! If He did such a miracle in us, then He can do the same for others!

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When is the Son of Man revealed?

Whenever we read something that we don’t understand, people have a tendency to skip over it and move beyond. This is not something that is peculiar to me, but a universal trait among the human race.

You can see this in the gospels where the people were confronting Jesus over his statement that the Son of Man would be lifted up in death (John 12:34). They knew that the Old Testament promised the Messiah an everlasting kingdom, so how is it possible that he would die?

The Old Testament clearly says that the Messiah would die, and yet it still promised Him an eternal kingdom. You can see this in Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 53, and Psalm 22, among others. The Jews of that day, and even until today, failed to harmonize all the Scriptures, and thus could not understand that the Messiah would die, not for Himself, but for them, and then be resurrected to receive His eternal kingdom!

I am going through the gospel of Luke during my daily devotions, and I came across another example of this, one that I had read many times and must have skipped over it, but this week it jumped out at me.

Luke 17 records Jesus speaking about the comparison between the flood and the end times, and Lot, and the destruction of Sodom, and the end times. Then He says;

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

What caught my attention was the fact that this event exactly parallels Jesus talk about the End Times in Matthew 24;

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here’s the thing; will there be two great events where those on the housetop, and those in the field are told to flee to the hills, without taking any provisions or even clothing? No! These are two different accounts of the same time, yet they are known by separate events. The one event takes place in the Temple in Jerusalem, and the other takes place somewhere else, but the two are linked.

The Abomination of Desolation, where the Antichrist sets up an idol to himself in the temple, triggers the wrath of God like no event in history.

But why is it called “the day when the Son of man is revealed”?

The best answer is that this event coincides with the proclamation of the angel in Revelation 10;

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The revelation of the Son of Man will occur when the abomination of desolation takes place in the Temple of Jerusalem, and the time of the mystery of God will be over.

What is the mystery of God? It is that He is always present, but not seen. Once it is over He will come and go as He sees fit.

This will also coincide with the sign of the Son of Man appearing in the Heavens.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

We normally take it that this verse is one event, but I have come to the conclusion that it is multiple events spaced out over a period of time. The sign of the Son of Man, will appear in the heavens several years before He descends with the clouds of Heaven, and will be interpreted incorrectly by the lost people of the earth. They will mourn, not because the wrath of God is coming upon the earth, but because they think the earth is about to undergo an alien attack!

They will have their own “aliens” and so will be deluded into thinking that they can fight Jesus and win. Do “little green men” appear in the bible’s account of the End Times? I think so. John was not familiar with modern stories of aliens as “little green men”, and so to him they looked like frogs;

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Revelation 16:13

Unclean spirits are all over the earth, so why would John note these three particularly? This is because these devils will be visible and will delude the leaders of the earth to think they can fight Jesus at his return. After all, if we have our own aliens, on our side, then the odds are even, aren’t they? No, of coure, because Jesus is not an alien, but God the creator, but He will use this delusion to condemn the world, because He called and they wouldn’t answer Him but delighted themselves in evil!

They will see the Sign of the Son of Man, as it orbits the earth, and they will think it is a giant space ship, full of hostile aliens who are about to invade the earth!

This is why we have been bombarded with movie and TV shows featuring interaction between aliens and humanity, such as Star Trek, Star Wars, Independence Day, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek Voyager, Deep Space Nine, ET, and etc.

While these shows are packaged as adventure and science-fiction, they are in fact tools of Satan to deceive the human race, and prepare them for the End Times. As God says;

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. Isaiah 66:4

No doubt God has chosen the alien story as an End Times delusion, and Satan is a Tool in His hands. This plays into the pride of man, which the fable of evolution is also playing a part. Those who believe in evolution think that they are superior to the “superstitious” men of the past, and while they think they are superior, they are, in fact, embracing errors of their own. Greater errors, which will lead them to embrace the Antichrist, and wind up in the Lake of Fire for their troubles!

Posted in Christian Doctrine, Prophecy | Tagged , , , , , , | 4 Comments

What the bible says about drinking wine and alcohol part 2

Last week I started a series of letters between myself and a former pastor on the subject of wine and alcohol.  This pastor grew up in the home of an alcoholic father, and as a result he let his experiences colour his theology.  This is a very dangerous position for any believer to be in.

What if we discover that Jesus really did drink, and serve, alcoholic wine?  Would we then abandon Him, because He does not conform to our ideas?

We need to stand on the Word of God regardless of whether or not we agree with every jot and tittle.  In the end we will see that God was right all along.

This section starts with his response to my first letter and then continues with my response.  I have tried to differentiate between his writing and mine, with the use of different fonts;

“Dear Brother Knezacek:”

“Thank you for your letter of Dec, 6, received recently, I appreciate your concern that I be biblical in my statements from the pulpit and I assure you that is also my priority.”

“Like you, I also agree Molson’s ad campaign using “I Am” is indeed blasphemous and I have in the past, written the company as well as letters to the Editor about this.”

“You have done a good study on wine in the Bible, however, I don’t believe you have gone far enough. Please read the following information taken from The Way of life Encyclopedia and listen to the tape of a message I preached on the subject. This information will answer many of the concerns you have expressed in your letter. If you still feel your concerns have not been dealt with, let me know and we can discuss this subject further.”

“1 have listened to the tape from the message on the Sunday you said I “launched into a tirade against Molson’s breweries.” Webster’s Dictionary says a Tirade is “,.a long, vehement speech, esp. one of denunciation; harangue.” The total length of time spent on making that comment was 57 seconds, which hardly qualifies as a tirade, This wasn’t even a sub-point in the message, but merely a comment and was not intended to be an in- depth study on Wine in the Bible.”

“You mention that the Pharisees were not stupid and would not have accused Jesus of being a winebibber if he were not drinking alcoholic beverage. Does that mean they also would not have accused Him of having a Devil, or could not have bribed false witnesses against Jesus at His trial. Oh, yes, these men were very capable of telling vicious lies.”

“Not only has your study on Bible Wines not gone far enough, but your ‘facts’ on the problems of alcohol abuse in countries where it is in regular use has not gone far enough. The problems of alcoholism in Russia is well documented. Also the problems of obesity and heart disease may be less in those countries, hut problem of liver disease and other alcohol related problems are rampant. This is to say nothing of the mountain of social ills that come with such a society.”

“After listening to my message on wine and reading the material l have included, I think you will agree that I have a sound biblical basis for standing where I do on this subject. I have not tried to answer all your concerns in this letter, since I deal with most of them in the message that is on the tape.”

“I also know that I will report to God someday about what I have preached and what I had done as a pastor of this church. I know that I can stand before God with a clear conscious on this subject. Even the unsaved agree the biggest drug problem in the world today is the drug of alcohol. How could we as Christians promote it’s use, even responsibly? Does your position also hold true for moderate use of marijuana, or cocaine, or tobacco? Do you really believe you can drink a beer to the ‘glory of God?’ All that we do should be done to His glory.”

“I also have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of your position that a pastor can’t drink alcohol, but Jesus could. Certainly you don’t feel the position of the Pastor is of more importance in testimony and example than that of our Saviour.”

“I know of one Christian lady who was unfaithful to her husband, because her inhibitions were lowered and her thinking clouded because of alcohol. Had she abstained, this situation would never have happened, I could go on an on.”

“If you really want to be safe on this subject, you will abstain entirely. Any other position cannot be responsibly defended for the Christian who believes and practices holiness. The heart, here, is the issue, The heart will determine what kind of testimony we are to the world.”

“I am glad you wrote, for it gives me an opportunity express to you what I believe on this subject. I am not angry with you for not agreeing, but do hope you will prayerfully consider this information.”

“Sincerely, for souls,”

Pastor Roy, Heritage Church, Ontario, Canada

01/15/2000

Dear Pastor Roy,

Thank you for your quick reply to my letter. I was actually surprised at the speed of your response. You did read all of the verses I brought to your attention? The reason I ask is that you did not tackle Deuteronomy. 14:26 at all. I have listened to one of your tapes (the other two were blank!), and I must agree with much of what you said, however I must disagree with your ultimate conclusion. Many times you said yourself that the problem was drunkenness. This I agree with. You also said many things that I believe are half truths and even twisting of scripture. Please let me prove my point. Furthermore what you said in May of ’97 was essentially a word for word copy of the article on the Way of Life web site, which I have already read, and in fact was attempting to answer with my first letter.

I do hope you will find this to be constructive criticism and not destructive. It is not my purpose to tear you down, but to show that we can trust the Lord even when he says things we don’t like. I’m afraid my first letter may have been too antagonistic, and I apologize for that. I do hope that you don’t find this hostile or boring.

When someone asks you if you drink. You will automatically answer “No”, won’t you? You understand the word drink to mean alcohol. This is exactly the same context that Jesus said in Matthew 11:19 ‘The Son of man came eating and drinking”. So we have from his own lips that he drank wine. He was not disobeying the Old testament Laws if he drank a little alcohol. Please consider the following:

Lev. 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, WHEN they enter into the inner court.

Please note that this was a temporary ban on alcohol, only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation”. It was not a lifelong ban! The little word “when” is a part of the word of God! Please don’t ignore it. Don’t stop with “nor thy sons with thee”, surely God intended for us to read the whole verse? I notice that in the section from the Way of Life encyclopedia that you gave me, that this phrase is removed. This verse is a complete thought, they do wrong to take a part out of it! Let’s see what Websters says about the word “when” – when adv. at what time.—conj. AT THE TIME! Sometimes when people participate in “higher learning” they forget what little words mean. I hope you just forgot what what it meant, or just missed the point, because if you purposely ignored it I would call that deceitful! By the way when Jesus was at the wedding in Cana or associating with drinkers he was not in the tabernacle of the congregation nor in the inner court!

Of course he does not drink wine now that he is our high priest, not even unfermented wine: Mark 14:25 “Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Numbers 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please note that the Lord required STRONG WINE to be poured unto the Lord as part of the drink offering. How could it be called a drink offering if it wasn’t consumed as a drink? You say wine is unclean. Are you saying that the Lord required an unclean thing on his alter? Strong Wine is alcoholic wine! I can only echo the Lord in this case:

Acts 10:15 What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Since you didn’t respond to Deuteronomy. 14:26 I will repeat what I said, but first I must ask; Was the Lord commanding the Jews to partake of something unclean in their worship of Him? It is my belief, (given 1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.) that wine is a holy thing, or at least a clean thing that should be treated with respect and not abused. Certainly everything that exists belongs to the Lord, and nothing should be abused, including food or wine.:

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This verse brings to mind some questions which I think are quite relevant:

1) If the Lord told his people to drink “wine or strong drink” why should we think that the Lord Jesus didn’t drink these beverages when he partook of the Jewish religious ceremonies?

2) Why would their soul “lusteth after” strong drink if they never had any exposure to it? If strong drink is such an evil thing why does the Lord tell them to rejoice when they partake of it? (lust in this context simply means “to have a passionate desire”)

3) Did the Lord tell them it was OK to partake of wine and strong drink and then later change his mind? Could you trust such a fickle God to save your soul? Maybe a million years into eternity he might say “I’m tired of all these glorified believers, I think I’ll just toss them out into utter darkness”! If God gave permission for one group to use it and then turned around and called it a sin for another group we would never know where we stood. He might say one day that salvation is by faith, and the next say it’s by works!

4) Did the Lord expect the Jewish believers to buy their strong drink from unbelievers or from believers?

Strong drink is today the same as it always has been…alcohol! Please note also that the money referred to here is their tithe money!

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

You also quoted 2 Cor. 6:17 out of context. Lets look at the context:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

What God is calling unclean is idols and unbelievers, not alcohol! We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and believe me, I know the pain that results from this!

Jesus said: Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Paul also said: Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Nothing means NOTHING! If God wanted to say “something” he could have. What is it to be defiled? Is not one who sins defiled? Jesus said that something going in the mouth will not defile a man! Do you believe Jesus or not? I’m asking you to trust him in this, even though it goes against the grain. No man was ever defiled by drink, it is what comes out of him after he has had too much that defiles him. Yes that also applies to caffeine, marijuana and even cocaine. One cc of pure caffeine will kill you, yet you drink it on a regular basis. (My mistake; pastor Roy does not drink coffee, cola or anything that has caffeine in it, though his Church does serve it after the service on Sunday mornings. He is consistent in this.)

It also causes health problems in some of us! Did you know that chocolate, besides caffeine, has a chemical in it that is a close relative of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana? No wonder chocolate is addictive! Are you defiled when you eat chocolate? Caffeine is a drug, and an addictive substance, this is a proven fact, why do you think the soft drink makers put it in their pop? Are you saying that you can decide which drug is OK to use and which is not? People who smoke don’t get any more effect than people who drink coffee, so why is one OK and one not? I know some Christians who don’t drink alcohol or coffee, tea or cola or smoke. While I don’t agree with them, I have much respect for their consistency. I don’t believe you are consistent! You said in your tape that you wouldn’t eat food that was cooked in wine, even though the alcohol would have dissipated. I suspect that if you look in your closets you will find some vanilla flavoring or lemon or almond or perhaps some other flavor. You may even find a bottle of Scope or Nyquil. All of these things also contain alcohol. If it is a sin to touch even a little alcohol then I think it is likely that you have some confessing to do.

By the way I think that what Paul meant in Romans 14:14 is that if you think that the Lord commanded you not to do something, even if you are wrong and he really allows it, you would be sinning to do it because you are rebelling against your own understanding of God.

As for me being inconsistent with my statements on the following…

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to MUCH wine, teachers of good things;

I think you are accusing the Lord of being inconsistent, it’s what He says, not me!

I found I had to look up the word “given” – “naturally disposed toward.” usually followed by “to”. So, it doesn’t mean he can’t partake of wine or strong drink, only that he can’t be naturally disposed toward it. I don’t have a problem with pastors having a little wine at the Lords supper, even alcoholic wine. I think pastors could have a little wine on occasion, but not as a regular thing, isn’t that what this passage says? It also makes a distinction between a pastor and one of lower position. Since this is the Word of the Lord we must conclude that, while we are all priests, there is a difference in the requirements for some priests than others.

Let me give an example of what I think it means by “not given to wine”: A few years ago I read in the introduction of a book about cartooning techniques an account of a dinner given to honour the cartoonist Charles Schultz, the creator of Charlie Brown. The author, an unbelieving journalist, noticed that Mr. Schultz barely touched his wine. He had a few sips but didn’t even finish one glass. This behaviour was quite perplexing to the author, to the point that he even made mention of it in a book. I don’t know if it did but it’s the type of behaviour that could lead to witnessing opportunities. Mr. Schultz was not given to wine, in my opinion.

In your letter you passed on a part of the Way of Life encyclopedia, which I am already familiar with. (I’ve had correspondence with David Cloud, his ministry is partly why we are attending Heritage). In the section titled “IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?” it says;

1) ” No, even slight drinking impairs one’s thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Pe. 5:8,9). When I looked at this verse it does not say what he just said it says. It says “be sober, be vigilant”. It does not say in the least that one should not have any alcohol! What is sober to one person may be two or three drinks to another. When a man drives to Toronto, works a 12 hour shift or more, and then drives home, he is already impaired (by fatigue) without drinking any alcohol! He is sober, yet slightly impaired.”

2) “No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Eph5:18)” This is true but he forgot the phrase “wherein is excess”. Only those who drink to excess are controlled by liquor. It says that in Eph. 5:18!

  1. “The Bible does not forbid priests to drink; only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation” In Isaiah 28:7 The priests did err through wine but given the above it was either because they drank it while on duty or more likely that they became drunk since it says “they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.” This is not describing one who drinks moderately, is it? These were people who were stoned!”
  2. “No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing.” “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself” Here you and the author add to scripture as well as take it out of context. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
  3. “No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil” Here he quoted from the NIV, the actual word is “appearance” not “form”. Is there an appearance of evil when you take a glass and put it to your lips? Don’t forget that drinking juice or wine or ginger ale looks exactly the same to an observer. You appear evil when you act drunk, even if you’ve had no wine, like the “Toronto Blessing”. He is also assuming that drinking is a form of evil. Given Deuteronomy 14:26 and all the verses quoted here this assumption is just plain wrong. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on!
  4. “No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble: Romans 14:21” It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. So what does verse 22 mean? Does it mean “you have freedom but don’t exercise it”? Or does it mean that one who has faith and freedom must exercise the utmost caution so he doesn’t cause a weaker brother to stumble? I think the latter is most likely true. Why do you, and they, only use verse 21? Isn’t the rest part of the word of God? To say that Christians who drink cause others to stumble is only the opinion of the author, and is also an assumption that it must always be the case. The verse in question leaves it up to the judgment of the reader. It is not saying that drinking will always cause a brother to stumble, otherwise it would also be saying that about eating flesh. We know the apostles didn’t have a problem with eating flesh, but some did: Romans 14: 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: The whole of Romans 14 deserves much study, but since we haven’t the time I just wan’t to briefly point out that this doesn’t mean that one should never eat meat, but to be careful and wise when one does, the same goes for wine and strong drink. I submit to you that IF ONE IS ABLE TO DRINK ALCOHOL WITHOUT OFFENDING A BROTHER THEN ONE IS FREE TO DO SO. Romans 14 also talks about keeping days. Are you aware that some Christians are offended when you keep Dec. 25 as the Lords birthday? Is their faith going to be made weak if you keep Christmas? Is your faith going to be made weak if a brother has a little wine? I know that some brothers will be made weak, specifically former alcoholics. So clearly one shouldn’t drink when he doesn’t know the spiritual condition of his companions.
  5. “No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver(Proverbs.20:1)” Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Is one who has one glass of wine “raging”? Only one who is drunk is mocked by wine.

Regarding Phil. 4:5 Mr. Lackey implies that the KJV translators were wrong to use the word MODERATION in this instance. He says that since the same word was translated differently in other places that it really can’t mean MODERATION. So here we have an instance of “higher criticism” showing it’s ugly head even amongst fundamentalists, the hour indeed is late! Obviously MODERATION is another meaning of the word and the Lord led the translators to this particular translation. If the KJV isn’t perfect then we may as well use the new translations. The Catholics use the same tactic when they say that the word brother can also mean cousins, and Jesus is really an only child, and Mary died a virgin! I think I’ll trust God’s book rather than a man who hasn’t even lived 100 years yet!

It seems to me that you are very careful to pick and choose the verses you will use. If you use all the verses that contain wine and strong drink, you can only come to one conclusion; that wine and strong drink are acceptable when used in moderation and care.

Regarding the problems in Russia and the social ills that come with such a society. Where does it say that the church is to concern itself with the problems of this world? Those problems would be there whether or not alcohol was present in that society! As you said their problem is a heart problem not an alcohol problem. The alcohol ABUSE is a symptom, not the root cause. Not only this but if all the problems in society were solved no one would ever think they need a saviour. How many “moderate drinkers” ever come to you for help? I expect the answer is none, or very few, but they are in the majority of drinkers. Only those that come to the end of themselves realize that they need a Saviour.

As for the woman who committed adultery when her inhibitions were lowered due to alcohol use. It reminds me of Flip Wilson in the 70’s saying “da devil made me do it!”. I don’t believe the devil ever “made” anyone sin, and neither did alcohol make her sin. I think adultery was already in her heart before she had the first sip. What was she doing drinking without her husband present anyway? Why was she drinking in the presence of another man? Did she have no regard for the warnings about wine in the bible? Though moderate drinking may be acceptable, those warnings are still there. I think you have oversimplified the situation. I think she is looking for someone or something else to blame instead of bearing the responsibility herself. Yes too much alcohol will lower ones inhibitions, but it is that which is already present that will come out. If a man has anger or hate in his heart he may beat his wife or children when he is drunk. If they can’t take one drink without having another they shouldn’t have the first. But this doesn’t mean that no one should drink, only those who have a problem with it.

The author says that “Christ did not come to cause others to stumble!” Please look at the following verses:

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

So, many were predicted to stumble over Jesus, yes they stumble over the cross but this does not rule out other things that they might stumble over. I don’t think the author is being totally honest.

A few years ago my son’s Sunday school teacher (at Emmanuel Baptist) told the class that drinking is a sin. He went home and told his mother that drinking was a sin (he was 5 years old at the time). My ex-wife and her husband were offended and told him that if I took him to church again that they would come and physically remove him from the premises. This caused such a big problem (and many sleepless nights) that we ended up going to a counsellor over it. The unbelieving (I think) counsellor convinced them that it was OK for Alex to go to church with me. The sad thing is that it was totally unnecessary. I also believe that it has permanently prejudiced two people against ever darkening the doorway of a Baptist church!

Many Great Christian leaders over the centuries had no problem if a brother had a little alcohol, including, but not limited to, John Huss and Martin Luther. The Primitive Baptists also use fermented wine in their Lord’s Supper services. I disagree with their Calvinism but not to this particular practice, they have sound reasons for doing it. I have recently read a book that identifies the teaching, that drinking wine is sinfull, as a part of the Great Apostasy. At first I was a little offended, but I looked in the scriptures and found that it seems he was right. I don’t believe that this teaching is much over 100-150 years old. Yes preachers of old did preach against drunkenness, but I have not seen any evidence that it extended to alcohol itself. I suppose it’s possible that a few did, but as seen above it was and is unscriptural.

I don’t have a problem if you say “I don’t recommend anyone drinking”. Neither does it bother me if you say that “drinking alcohol is risky”. If you want to preach against drunkenness I’ll back you 100%. But when you make a blanket statement that “we are commanded not to drink liquor” this is not true. When you say drinking is sin you are missrepresenting the bible, and inducing contradictions to scripture. Maybe it is if one “drinks with offence”, but this does not mean that it is always a sin. When you say that priests were commanded not to drink wine or strong drink you have only spoken a half truth. Don’t be afraid of the whole truth.

If you really believe Christians shouldn’t drink, there are some verses you could use without saying drinking is sin, for instance:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So for some people self denial probably does mean abstaining from drink. I don’t think it is required of the Lord for everyone, but perhaps he will honour those who give up alcohol, of their own free will, as a sacrifice to him. In the Old Testament they did not sacrifice unclean things to God, but clean. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask the Lord’s people to make a sacrifice of something that’s a legitimate right. I don’t think it’s right to demand it, however, since the Lord himself doesn’t do so.

There are a couple of verses that neither you nor the Way of Life Encyclopedia have brought up, and even I forgot about, but I believe they bear strongly on the topic at hand:

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

One who is drunk is clearly under the power of alcohol, but these verses don’t say specifically alcohol. Since it doesn’t specifically mention any substance by name I believe it is up to the individual believer which ones apply to him. (Just because one may do something it doesn’t mean one must do it) I think the principles here can be applied to a number of substances. If I have coffee in the evening I will not sleep that night, or maybe I’ll get a couple hours of sleep, so I would be under the power of caffeine. Therefore I rarely drink regular coffee and if I do it shouldn’t be after six in the evening, otherwise I suffer consequences for some time. One who is a drug addict is also under the power of drugs, and should avoid them. The problem is that some people can live an entire lifetime drinking a little wine, and never get drunk. These people are never controlled by alcohol and they know it. They may not commit adultery, rob or commit murder. Their only sin may be covetousness or impure thoughts. When you say that drinking is sin they know from their own experience that they are self controlled and not sinning, and they may end up rejecting the entire message. I believe this is a tragedy, although the Lord did predict it himself when he said “for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

I have not brought into the discussion the health benefits of drinking that science has discovered. If alcohol were the most healthy drink in the world, but the bible said not to drink it, one would be a fool to do so. But I think I have proved that the bible does not command abstinence. And there are health benefits to moderate consumption of alcohol. If the doctor prescribed one pill a day and you saved it up and took them all on a Saturday night, would you expect to get any health benefit? Not only does the grape part of red wine help lower the LDL Cholesterol, (and this benefit can be gained by regular eating of grapes), but the alcohol itself stimulates the liver to produce the good cholesterol or HDL. The only other way to increase the HDL is through exercise. By the way aerobic exercise produces a type of alcohol in your body, it partially breaks down sugars without oxygen. I believe that this alcohol is what stimulates the liver to produce HDL cholesterol. (Ever hear of “runners high”?)(this is not the same type of alcohol that one gets from a bottle, but it is definitely a type of alcohol)

After listening to your tape on wine in the bible I don’t believe you have a sound biblical basis for where you stand. I think you have ignored some important verses in the bible, and others you have taken out of context. I don’t think a man of God needs to do that.

I thank you for what you said about bible study on Sunday, it’s too bad more people didn’t hear it. Some I have met think you are a proud or a hard man, but what I heard on Sunday was a man truly seeking the will of God for himself and his people. I have prayed much about this issue and believe that what I have said is biblical. The Lord did show me that I needed to make some changes to my letter. However I still believe that this viewpoint is the only one that harmonizes all of scripture, I don’t have to be afraid of any verse. While I ha

“Dear Brother Knezacek:”

“Thank you for your letter of Dec, 6, received recently, I appreciate your concern that I be biblical in my statements from the pulpit and I assure you that is also my priority.”

“Like you, I also agree Molson’s ad campaign using “I Am” is indeed blasphemous and I have in the past, written the company as well as letters to the Editor about this.”

“You have done a good study on wine in the Bible, however, I don’t believe you have gone far enough. Please read the following information taken from The Way of life Encyclopedia and listen to the tape of a message I preached on the subject. This information will answer many of the concerns you have expressed in your letter. If you still feel your concerns have not been dealt with, let me know and we can discuss this subject further.”

“1 have listened to the tape from the message on the Sunday you said I “launched into a tirade against Molson’s breweries.” Webster’s Dictionary says a Tirade is “,.a long, vehement speech, esp. one of denunciation; harangue.” The total length of time spent on making that comment was 57 seconds, which hardly qualifies as a tirade, This wasn’t even a sub-point in the message, but merely a comment and was not intended to be an in- depth study on Wine in the Bible.”

“You mention that the Pharisees were not stupid and would not have accused Jesus of being a winebibber if he were not drinking alcoholic beverage. Does that mean they also would not have accused Him of having a Devil, or could not have bribed false witnesses against Jesus at His trial. Oh, yes, these men were very capable of telling vicious lies.”

“Not only has your study on Bible Wines not gone far enough, but your ‘facts’ on the problems of alcohol abuse in countries where it is in regular use has not gone far enough. The problems of alcoholism in Russia is well documented. Also the problems of obesity and heart disease may be less in those countries, hut problem of liver disease and other alcohol related problems are rampant. This is to say nothing of the mountain of social ills that come with such a society.”

“After listening to my message on wine and reading the material l have included, I think you will agree that I have a sound biblical basis for standing where I do on this subject. I have not tried to answer all your concerns in this letter, since I deal with most of them in the message that is on the tape.”

“I also know that I will report to God someday about what I have preached and what I had done as a pastor of this church. I know that I can stand before God with a clear conscious on this subject. Even the unsaved agree the biggest drug problem in the world today is the drug of alcohol. How could we as Christians promote it’s use, even responsibly? Does your position also hold true for moderate use of marijuana, or cocaine, or tobacco? Do you really believe you can drink a beer to the ‘glory of God?’ All that we do should be done to His glory.”

“I also have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of your position that a pastor can’t drink alcohol, but Jesus could. Certainly you don’t feel the position of the Pastor is of more importance in testimony and example than that of our Saviour.”

“I know of one Christian lady who was unfaithful to her husband, because her inhibitions were lowered and her thinking clouded because of alcohol. Had she abstained, this situation would never have happened, I could go on an on.”

“If you really want to be safe on this subject, you will abstain entirely. Any other position cannot be responsibly defended for the Christian who believes and practices holiness. The heart, here, is the issue, The heart will determine what kind of testimony we are to the world.”

“I am glad you wrote, for it gives me an opportunity express to you what I believe on this subject. I am not angry with you for not agreeing, but do hope you will prayerfully consider this information.”

“Sincerely, for souls,”

Pastor Roy,

Heritage Church,

Ontario, Canada

01/15/2000

Dear Pastor Roy,

Thank you for your quick reply to my letter. I was actually surprised at the speed of your response. You did read all of the verses I brought to your attention? The reason I ask is that you did not tackle Deuteronomy. 14:26 at all. I have listened to one of your tapes (the other two were blank!), and I must agree with much of what you said, however I must disagree with your ultimate conclusion. Many times you said yourself that the problem was drunkenness. This I agree with. You also said many things that I believe are half truths and even twisting of scripture. Please let me prove my point. Furthermore what you said in May of ’97 was essentially a word for word copy of the article on the Way of Life web site, which I have already read, and in fact was attempting to answer with my first letter.

I do hope you will find this to be constructive criticism and not destructive. It is not my purpose to tear you down, but to show that we can trust the Lord even when he says things we don’t like. I’m afraid my first letter may have been too antagonistic, and I apologize for that. I do hope that you don’t find this hostile or boring.

When someone asks you if you drink. You will automatically answer “No”, won’t you? You understand the word drink to mean alcohol. This is exactly the same context that Jesus said in Matthew 11:19 ‘The Son of man came eating and drinking”. So we have from his own lips that he drank wine. He was not disobeying the Old testament Laws if he drank a little alcohol. Please consider the following:

Lev. 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, WHEN they enter into the inner court.

Please note that this was a temporary ban on alcohol, only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation”. It was not a lifelong ban! The little word “when” is a part of the word of God! Please don’t ignore it. Don’t stop with “nor thy sons with thee”, surely God intended for us to read the whole verse? I notice that in the section from the Way of Life encyclopedia that you gave me, that this phrase is removed. This verse is a complete thought, they do wrong to take a part out of it! Let’s see what Websters says about the word “when” – when adv. at what time.—conj. AT THE TIME! Sometimes when people participate in “higher learning” they forget what little words mean. I hope you just forgot what what it meant, or just missed the point, because if you purposely ignored it I would call that deceitful! By the way when Jesus was at the wedding in Cana or associating with drinkers he was not in the tabernacle of the congregation nor in the inner court!

Of course he does not drink wine now that he is our high priest, not even unfermented wine: Mark 14:25 “Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Numbers 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please note that the Lord required STRONG WINE to be poured unto the Lord as part of the drink offering. How could it be called a drink offering if it wasn’t consumed as a drink? You say wine is unclean. Are you saying that the Lord required an unclean thing on his alter? Strong Wine is alcoholic wine! I can only echo the Lord in this case:

Acts 10:15 What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Since you didn’t respond to Deuteronomy. 14:26 I will repeat what I said, but first I must ask; Was the Lord commanding the Jews to partake of something unclean in their worship of Him? It is my belief, (given 1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.) that wine is a holy thing, or at least a clean thing that should be treated with respect and not abused. Certainly everything that exists belongs to the Lord, and nothing should be abused, including food or wine.:

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This verse brings to mind some questions which I think are quite relevant:

1) If the Lord told his people to drink “wine or strong drink” why should we think that the Lord Jesus didn’t drink these beverages when he partook of the Jewish religious ceremonies?

2) Why would their soul “lusteth after” strong drink if they never had any exposure to it? If strong drink is such an evil thing why does the Lord tell them to rejoice when they partake of it? (lust in this context simply means “to have a passionate desire”)

3) Did the Lord tell them it was OK to partake of wine and strong drink and then later change his mind? Could you trust such a fickle God to save your soul? Maybe a million years into eternity he might say “I’m tired of all these glorified believers, I think I’ll just toss them out into utter darkness”! If God gave permission for one group to use it and then turned around and called it a sin for another group we would never know where we stood. He might say one day that salvation is by faith, and the next say it’s by works!

4) Did the Lord expect the Jewish believers to buy their strong drink from unbelievers or from believers?

Strong drink is today the same as it always has been…alcohol! Please note also that the money referred to here is their tithe money!

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

You also quoted 2 Cor. 6:17 out of context. Lets look at the context:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

What God is calling unclean is idols and unbelievers, not alcohol! We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and believe me, I know the pain that results from this!

Jesus said: Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Paul also said: Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Nothing means NOTHING! If God wanted to say “something” he could have. What is it to be defiled? Is not one who sins defiled? Jesus said that something going in the mouth will not defile a man! Do you believe Jesus or not? I’m asking you to trust him in this, even though it goes against the grain. No man was ever defiled by drink, it is what comes out of him after he has had too much that defiles him. Yes that also applies to caffeine, marijuana and even cocaine. One cc of pure caffeine will kill you, yet you drink it on a regular basis. (My mistake; pastor Roy does not drink coffee, cola or anything that has caffeine in it, though his Church does serve it after the service on Sunday mornings. He is consistent in this.)

It also causes health problems in some of us! Did you know that chocolate, besides caffeine, has a chemical in it that is a close relative of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana? No wonder chocolate is addictive! Are you defiled when you eat chocolate? Caffeine is a drug, and an addictive substance, this is a proven fact, why do you think the soft drink makers put it in their pop? Are you saying that you can decide which drug is OK to use and which is not? People who smoke don’t get any more effect than people who drink coffee, so why is one OK and one not? I know some Christians who don’t drink alcohol or coffee, tea or cola or smoke. While I don’t agree with them, I have much respect for their consistency. I don’t believe you are consistent! You said in your tape that you wouldn’t eat food that was cooked in wine, even though the alcohol would have dissipated. I suspect that if you look in your closets you will find some vanilla flavoring or lemon or almond or perhaps some other flavor. You may even find a bottle of Scope or Nyquil. All of these things also contain alcohol. If it is a sin to touch even a little alcohol then I think it is likely that you have some confessing to do.

By the way I think that what Paul meant in Romans 14:14 is that if you think that the Lord commanded you not to do something, even if you are wrong and he really allows it, you would be sinning to do it because you are rebelling against your own understanding of God.

As for me being inconsistent with my statements on the following…

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to MUCH wine, teachers of good things;

I think you are accusing the Lord of being inconsistent, it’s what He says, not me!

I found I had to look up the word “given” – “naturally disposed toward.” usually followed by “to”. So, it doesn’t mean he can’t partake of wine or strong drink, only that he can’t be naturally disposed toward it. I don’t have a problem with pastors having a little wine at the Lords supper, even alcoholic wine. I think pastors could have a little wine on occasion, but not as a regular thing, isn’t that what this passage says? It also makes a distinction between a pastor and one of lower position. Since this is the Word of the Lord we must conclude that, while we are all priests, there is a difference in the requirements for some priests than others.

Let me give an example of what I think it means by “not given to wine”: A few years ago I read in the introduction of a book about cartooning techniques an account of a dinner given to honour the cartoonist Charles Schultz, the creator of Charlie Brown. The author, an unbelieving journalist, noticed that Mr. Schultz barely touched his wine. He had a few sips but didn’t even finish one glass. This behaviour was quite perplexing to the author, to the point that he even made mention of it in a book. I don’t know if it did but it’s the type of behaviour that could lead to witnessing opportunities. Mr. Schultz was not given to wine, in my opinion.

In your letter you passed on a part of the Way of Life encyclopedia, which I am already familiar with. (I’ve had correspondence with David Cloud, his ministry is partly why we are attending Heritage). In the section titled “IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?” it says;

1) ” No, even slight drinking impairs one’s thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Pe. 5:8,9). When I looked at this verse it does not say what he just said it says. It says “be sober, be vigilant”. It does not say in the least that one should not have any alcohol! What is sober to one person may be two or three drinks to another. When a man drives to Toronto, works a 12 hour shift or more, and then drives home, he is already impaired (by fatigue) without drinking any alcohol! He is sober, yet slightly impaired.”

2) “No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Eph5:18)” This is true but he forgot the phrase “wherein is excess”. Only those who drink to excess are controlled by liquor. It says that in Eph. 5:18!

  1. “The Bible does not forbid priests to drink; only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation” In Isaiah 28:7 The priests did err through wine but given the above it was either because they drank it while on duty or more likely that they became drunk since it says “they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.” This is not describing one who drinks moderately, is it? These were people who were stoned!”
  2. “No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing.” “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself” Here you and the author add to scripture as well as take it out of context. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
  3. “No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil” Here he quoted from the NIV, the actual word is “appearance” not “form”. Is there an appearance of evil when you take a glass and put it to your lips? Don’t forget that drinking juice or wine or ginger ale looks exactly the same to an observer. You appear evil when you act drunk, even if you’ve had no wine, like the “Toronto Blessing”. He is also assuming that drinking is a form of evil. Given Deuteronomy 14:26 and all the verses quoted here this assumption is just plain wrong. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on!
  4. “No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble: Romans 14:21” It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. So what does verse 22 mean? Does it mean “you have freedom but don’t exercise it”? Or does it mean that one who has faith and freedom must exercise the utmost caution so he doesn’t cause a weaker brother to stumble? I think the latter is most likely true. Why do you, and they, only use verse 21? Isn’t the rest part of the word of God? To say that Christians who drink cause others to stumble is only the opinion of the author, and is also an assumption that it must always be the case. The verse in question leaves it up to the judgment of the reader. It is not saying that drinking will always cause a brother to stumble, otherwise it would also be saying that about eating flesh. We know the apostles didn’t have a problem with eating flesh, but some did: Romans 14: 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: The whole of Romans 14 deserves much study, but since we haven’t the time I just wan’t to briefly point out that this doesn’t mean that one should never eat meat, but to be careful and wise when one does, the same goes for wine and strong drink. I submit to you that IF ONE IS ABLE TO DRINK ALCOHOL WITHOUT OFFENDING A BROTHER THEN ONE IS FREE TO DO SO. Romans 14 also talks about keeping days. Are you aware that some Christians are offended when you keep Dec. 25 as the Lords birthday? Is their faith going to be made weak if you keep Christmas? Is your faith going to be made weak if a brother has a little wine? I know that some brothers will be made weak, specifically former alcoholics. So clearly one shouldn’t drink when he doesn’t know the spiritual condition of his companions.
  5. “No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver(Proverbs.20:1)” Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Is one who has one glass of wine “raging”? Only one who is drunk is mocked by wine.

Regarding Phil. 4:5 Mr. Lackey implies that the KJV translators were wrong to use the word MODERATION in this instance. He says that since the same word was translated differently in other places that it really can’t mean MODERATION. So here we have an instance of “higher criticism” showing it’s ugly head even amongst fundamentalists, the hour indeed is late! Obviously MODERATION is another meaning of the word and the Lord led the translators to this particular translation. If the KJV isn’t perfect then we may as well use the new translations. The Catholics use the same tactic when they say that the word brother can also mean cousins, and Jesus is really an only child, and Mary died a virgin! I think I’ll trust God’s book rather than a man who hasn’t even lived 100 years yet!

It seems to me that you are very careful to pick and choose the verses you will use. If you use all the verses that contain wine and strong drink, you can only come to one conclusion; that wine and strong drink are acceptable when used in moderation and care.

Regarding the problems in Russia and the social ills that come with such a society. Where does it say that the church is to concern itself with the problems of this world? Those problems would be there whether or not alcohol was present in that society! As you said their problem is a heart problem not an alcohol problem. The alcohol ABUSE is a symptom, not the root cause. Not only this but if all the problems in society were solved no one would ever think they need a saviour. How many “moderate drinkers” ever come to you for help? I expect the answer is none, or very few, but they are in the majority of drinkers. Only those that come to the end of themselves realize that they need a Saviour.

As for the woman who committed adultery when her inhibitions were lowered due to alcohol use. It reminds me of Flip Wilson in the 70’s saying “da devil made me do it!”. I don’t believe the devil ever “made” anyone sin, and neither did alcohol make her sin. I think adultery was already in her heart before she had the first sip. What was she doing drinking without her husband present anyway? Why was she drinking in the presence of another man? Did she have no regard for the warnings about wine in the bible? Though moderate drinking may be acceptable, those warnings are still there. I think you have oversimplified the situation. I think she is looking for someone or something else to blame instead of bearing the responsibility herself. Yes too much alcohol will lower ones inhibitions, but it is that which is already present that will come out. If a man has anger or hate in his heart he may beat his wife or children when he is drunk. If they can’t take one drink without having another they shouldn’t have the first. But this doesn’t mean that no one should drink, only those who have a problem with it.

The author says that “Christ did not come to cause others to stumble!” Please look at the following verses:

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

So, many were predicted to stumble over Jesus, yes they stumble over the cross but this does not rule out other things that they might stumble over. I don’t think the author is being totally honest.

A few years ago my son’s Sunday school teacher (at Emmanuel Baptist) told the class that drinking is a sin. He went home and told his mother that drinking was a sin (he was 5 years old at the time). My ex-wife and her husband were offended and told him that if I took him to church again that they would come and physically remove him from the premises. This caused such a big problem (and many sleepless nights) that we ended up going to a counsellor over it. The unbelieving (I think) counsellor convinced them that it was OK for Alex to go to church with me. The sad thing is that it was totally unnecessary. I also believe that it has permanently prejudiced two people against ever darkening the doorway of a Baptist church!

Many Great Christian leaders over the centuries had no problem if a brother had a little alcohol, including, but not limited to, John Huss and Martin Luther. The Primitive Baptists also use fermented wine in their Lord’s Supper services. I disagree with their Calvinism but not to this particular practice, they have sound reasons for doing it. I have recently read a book that identifies the teaching, that drinking wine is sinfull, as a part of the Great Apostasy. At first I was a little offended, but I looked in the scriptures and found that it seems he was right. I don’t believe that this teaching is much over 100-150 years old. Yes preachers of old did preach against drunkenness, but I have not seen any evidence that it extended to alcohol itself. I suppose it’s possible that a few did, but as seen above it was and is unscriptural.

I don’t have a problem if you say “I don’t recommend anyone drinking”. Neither does it bother me if you say that “drinking alcohol is risky”. If you want to preach against drunkenness I’ll back you 100%. But when you make a blanket statement that “we are commanded not to drink liquor” this is not true. When you say drinking is sin you are missrepresenting the bible, and inducing contradictions to scripture. Maybe it is if one “drinks with offence”, but this does not mean that it is always a sin. When you say that priests were commanded not to drink wine or strong drink you have only spoken a half truth. Don’t be afraid of the whole truth.

If you really believe Christians shouldn’t drink, there are some verses you could use without saying drinking is sin, for instance:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So for some people self denial probably does mean abstaining from drink. I don’t think it is required of the Lord for everyone, but perhaps he will honour those who give up alcohol, of their own free will, as a sacrifice to him. In the Old Testament they did not sacrifice unclean things to God, but clean. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask the Lord’s people to make a sacrifice of something that’s a legitimate right. I don’t think it’s right to demand it, however, since the Lord himself doesn’t do so.

There are a couple of verses that neither you nor the Way of Life Encyclopedia have brought up, and even I forgot about, but I believe they bear strongly on the topic at hand:

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

One who is drunk is clearly under the power of alcohol, but these verses don’t say specifically alcohol. Since it doesn’t specifically mention any substance by name I believe it is up to the individual believer which ones apply to him. (Just because one may do something it doesn’t mean one must do it) I think the principles here can be applied to a number of substances. If I have coffee in the evening I will not sleep that night, or maybe I’ll get a couple hours of sleep, so I would be under the power of caffeine. Therefore I rarely drink regular coffee and if I do it shouldn’t be after six in the evening, otherwise I suffer consequences for some time. One who is a drug addict is also under the power of drugs, and should avoid them. The problem is that some people can live an entire lifetime drinking a little wine, and never get drunk. These people are never controlled by alcohol and they know it. They may not commit adultery, rob or commit murder. Their only sin may be covetousness or impure thoughts. When you say that drinking is sin they know from their own experience that they are self controlled and not sinning, and they may end up rejecting the entire message. I believe this is a tragedy, although the Lord did predict it himself when he said “for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

I have not brought into the discussion the health benefits of drinking that science has discovered. If alcohol were the most healthy drink in the world, but the bible said not to drink it, one would be a fool to do so. But I think I have proved that the bible does not command abstinence. And there are health benefits to moderate consumption of alcohol. If the doctor prescribed one pill a day and you saved it up and took them all on a Saturday night, would you expect to get any health benefit? Not only does the grape part of red wine help lower the LDL Cholesterol, (and this benefit can be gained by regular eating of grapes), but the alcohol itself stimulates the liver to produce the good cholesterol or HDL. The only other way to increase the HDL is through exercise. By the way aerobic exercise produces a type of alcohol in your body, it partially breaks down sugars without oxygen. I believe that this alcohol is what stimulates the liver to produce HDL cholesterol. (Ever hear of “runners high”?)(this is not the same type of alcohol that one gets from a bottle, but it is definitely a type of alcohol)

After listening to your tape on wine in the bible I don’t believe you have a sound biblical basis for where you stand. I think you have ignored some important verses in the bible, and others you have taken out of context. I don’t think a man of God needs to do that.

I thank you for what you said about bible study on Sunday, it’s too bad more people didn’t hear it. Some I have met think you are a proud or a hard man, but what I heard on Sunday was a man truly seeking the will of God for himself and his people. I have prayed much about this issue and believe that what I have said is biblical. The Lord did show me that I needed to make some changes to my letter. However I still believe that this viewpoint is the only one that harmonizes all of scripture, I don’t have to be afraid of any verse. While I haven’t used every verse that touches upon this subject, the ones I have used are representative of the others.

Your brother in Christ,

“Dear Brother Knezacek:”

“Thank you for your letter of Dec, 6, received recently, I appreciate your concern that I be biblical in my statements from the pulpit and I assure you that is also my priority.”

“Like you, I also agree Molson’s ad campaign using “I Am” is indeed blasphemous and I have in the past, written the company as well as letters to the Editor about this.”

“You have done a good study on wine in the Bible, however, I don’t believe you have gone far enough. Please read the following information taken from The Way of life Encyclopedia and listen to the tape of a message I preached on the subject. This information will answer many of the concerns you have expressed in your letter. If you still feel your concerns have not been dealt with, let me know and we can discuss this subject further.”

“1 have listened to the tape from the message on the Sunday you said I “launched into a tirade against Molson’s breweries.” Webster’s Dictionary says a Tirade is “,.a long, vehement speech, esp. one of denunciation; harangue.” The total length of time spent on making that comment was 57 seconds, which hardly qualifies as a tirade, This wasn’t even a sub-point in the message, but merely a comment and was not intended to be an in- depth study on Wine in the Bible.”

“You mention that the Pharisees were not stupid and would not have accused Jesus of being a winebibber if he were not drinking alcoholic beverage. Does that mean they also would not have accused Him of having a Devil, or could not have bribed false witnesses against Jesus at His trial. Oh, yes, these men were very capable of telling vicious lies.”

“Not only has your study on Bible Wines not gone far enough, but your ‘facts’ on the problems of alcohol abuse in countries where it is in regular use has not gone far enough. The problems of alcoholism in Russia is well documented. Also the problems of obesity and heart disease may be less in those countries, hut problem of liver disease and other alcohol related problems are rampant. This is to say nothing of the mountain of social ills that come with such a society.”

“After listening to my message on wine and reading the material l have included, I think you will agree that I have a sound biblical basis for standing where I do on this subject. I have not tried to answer all your concerns in this letter, since I deal with most of them in the message that is on the tape.”

“I also know that I will report to God someday about what I have preached and what I had done as a pastor of this church. I know that I can stand before God with a clear conscious on this subject. Even the unsaved agree the biggest drug problem in the world today is the drug of alcohol. How could we as Christians promote it’s use, even responsibly? Does your position also hold true for moderate use of marijuana, or cocaine, or tobacco? Do you really believe you can drink a beer to the ‘glory of God?’ All that we do should be done to His glory.”

“I also have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of your position that a pastor can’t drink alcohol, but Jesus could. Certainly you don’t feel the position of the Pastor is of more importance in testimony and example than that of our Saviour.”

“I know of one Christian lady who was unfaithful to her husband, because her inhibitions were lowered and her thinking clouded because of alcohol. Had she abstained, this situation would never have happened, I could go on an on.”

“If you really want to be safe on this subject, you will abstain entirely. Any other position cannot be responsibly defended for the Christian who believes and practices holiness. The heart, here, is the issue, The heart will determine what kind of testimony we are to the world.”

“I am glad you wrote, for it gives me an opportunity express to you what I believe on this subject. I am not angry with you for not agreeing, but do hope you will prayerfully consider this information.”

“Sincerely, for souls,”

Pastor Roy,

Heritage Church,

Ontario, Canada

01/15/2000

Dear Pastor Roy,

Thank you for your quick reply to my letter. I was actually surprised at the speed of your response. You did read all of the verses I brought to your attention? The reason I ask is that you did not tackle Deuteronomy. 14:26 at all. I have listened to one of your tapes (the other two were blank!), and I must agree with much of what you said, however I must disagree with your ultimate conclusion. Many times you said yourself that the problem was drunkenness. This I agree with. You also said many things that I believe are half truths and even twisting of scripture. Please let me prove my point. Furthermore what you said in May of ’97 was essentially a word for word copy of the article on the Way of Life web site, which I have already read, and in fact was attempting to answer with my first letter.

I do hope you will find this to be constructive criticism and not destructive. It is not my purpose to tear you down, but to show that we can trust the Lord even when he says things we don’t like. I’m afraid my first letter may have been too antagonistic, and I apologize for that. I do hope that you don’t find this hostile or boring.

When someone asks you if you drink. You will automatically answer “No”, won’t you? You understand the word drink to mean alcohol. This is exactly the same context that Jesus said in Matthew 11:19 ‘The Son of man came eating and drinking”. So we have from his own lips that he drank wine. He was not disobeying the Old testament Laws if he drank a little alcohol. Please consider the following:

Lev. 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, WHEN they enter into the inner court.

Please note that this was a temporary ban on alcohol, only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation”. It was not a lifelong ban! The little word “when” is a part of the word of God! Please don’t ignore it. Don’t stop with “nor thy sons with thee”, surely God intended for us to read the whole verse? I notice that in the section from the Way of Life encyclopedia that you gave me, that this phrase is removed. This verse is a complete thought, they do wrong to take a part out of it! Let’s see what Websters says about the word “when” – when adv. at what time.—conj. AT THE TIME! Sometimes when people participate in “higher learning” they forget what little words mean. I hope you just forgot what what it meant, or just missed the point, because if you purposely ignored it I would call that deceitful! By the way when Jesus was at the wedding in Cana or associating with drinkers he was not in the tabernacle of the congregation nor in the inner court!

Of course he does not drink wine now that he is our high priest, not even unfermented wine: Mark 14:25 “Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Numbers 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please note that the Lord required STRONG WINE to be poured unto the Lord as part of the drink offering. How could it be called a drink offering if it wasn’t consumed as a drink? You say wine is unclean. Are you saying that the Lord required an unclean thing on his alter? Strong Wine is alcoholic wine! I can only echo the Lord in this case:

Acts 10:15 What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Since you didn’t respond to Deuteronomy. 14:26 I will repeat what I said, but first I must ask; Was the Lord commanding the Jews to partake of something unclean in their worship of Him? It is my belief, (given 1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.) that wine is a holy thing, or at least a clean thing that should be treated with respect and not abused. Certainly everything that exists belongs to the Lord, and nothing should be abused, including food or wine.:

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This verse brings to mind some questions which I think are quite relevant:

1) If the Lord told his people to drink “wine or strong drink” why should we think that the Lord Jesus didn’t drink these beverages when he partook of the Jewish religious ceremonies?

2) Why would their soul “lusteth after” strong drink if they never had any exposure to it? If strong drink is such an evil thing why does the Lord tell them to rejoice when they partake of it? (lust in this context simply means “to have a passionate desire”)

3) Did the Lord tell them it was OK to partake of wine and strong drink and then later change his mind? Could you trust such a fickle God to save your soul? Maybe a million years into eternity he might say “I’m tired of all these glorified believers, I think I’ll just toss them out into utter darkness”! If God gave permission for one group to use it and then turned around and called it a sin for another group we would never know where we stood. He might say one day that salvation is by faith, and the next say it’s by works!

4) Did the Lord expect the Jewish believers to buy their strong drink from unbelievers or from believers?

Strong drink is today the same as it always has been…alcohol! Please note also that the money referred to here is their tithe money!

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

You also quoted 2 Cor. 6:17 out of context. Lets look at the context:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

What God is calling unclean is idols and unbelievers, not alcohol! We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and believe me, I know the pain that results from this!

Jesus said: Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Paul also said: Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Nothing means NOTHING! If God wanted to say “something” he could have. What is it to be defiled? Is not one who sins defiled? Jesus said that something going in the mouth will not defile a man! Do you believe Jesus or not? I’m asking you to trust him in this, even though it goes against the grain. No man was ever defiled by drink, it is what comes out of him after he has had too much that defiles him. Yes that also applies to caffeine, marijuana and even cocaine. One cc of pure caffeine will kill you, yet you drink it on a regular basis. (My mistake; pastor Roy does not drink coffee, cola or anything that has caffeine in it, though his Church does serve it after the service on Sunday mornings. He is consistent in this.)

It also causes health problems in some of us! Did you know that chocolate, besides caffeine, has a chemical in it that is a close relative of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana? No wonder chocolate is addictive! Are you defiled when you eat chocolate? Caffeine is a drug, and an addictive substance, this is a proven fact, why do you think the soft drink makers put it in their pop? Are you saying that you can decide which drug is OK to use and which is not? People who smoke don’t get any more effect than people who drink coffee, so why is one OK and one not? I know some Christians who don’t drink alcohol or coffee, tea or cola or smoke. While I don’t agree with them, I have much respect for their consistency. I don’t believe you are consistent! You said in your tape that you wouldn’t eat food that was cooked in wine, even though the alcohol would have dissipated. I suspect that if you look in your closets you will find some vanilla flavoring or lemon or almond or perhaps some other flavor. You may even find a bottle of Scope or Nyquil. All of these things also contain alcohol. If it is a sin to touch even a little alcohol then I think it is likely that you have some confessing to do.

By the way I think that what Paul meant in Romans 14:14 is that if you think that the Lord commanded you not to do something, even if you are wrong and he really allows it, you would be sinning to do it because you are rebelling against your own understanding of God.

As for me being inconsistent with my statements on the following…

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to MUCH wine, teachers of good things;

I think you are accusing the Lord of being inconsistent, it’s what He says, not me!

I found I had to look up the word “given” – “naturally disposed toward.” usually followed by “to”. So, it doesn’t mean he can’t partake of wine or strong drink, only that he can’t be naturally disposed toward it. I don’t have a problem with pastors having a little wine at the Lords supper, even alcoholic wine. I think pastors could have a little wine on occasion, but not as a regular thing, isn’t that what this passage says? It also makes a distinction between a pastor and one of lower position. Since this is the Word of the Lord we must conclude that, while we are all priests, there is a difference in the requirements for some priests than others.

Let me give an example of what I think it means by “not given to wine”: A few years ago I read in the introduction of a book about cartooning techniques an account of a dinner given to honour the cartoonist Charles Schultz, the creator of Charlie Brown. The author, an unbelieving journalist, noticed that Mr. Schultz barely touched his wine. He had a few sips but didn’t even finish one glass. This behaviour was quite perplexing to the author, to the point that he even made mention of it in a book. I don’t know if it did but it’s the type of behaviour that could lead to witnessing opportunities. Mr. Schultz was not given to wine, in my opinion.

In your letter you passed on a part of the Way of Life encyclopedia, which I am already familiar with. (I’ve had correspondence with David Cloud, his ministry is partly why we are attending Heritage). In the section titled “IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?” it says;

1) ” No, even slight drinking impairs one’s thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Pe. 5:8,9). When I looked at this verse it does not say what he just said it says. It says “be sober, be vigilant”. It does not say in the least that one should not have any alcohol! What is sober to one person may be two or three drinks to another. When a man drives to Toronto, works a 12 hour shift or more, and then drives home, he is already impaired (by fatigue) without drinking any alcohol! He is sober, yet slightly impaired.”

2) “No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Eph5:18)” This is true but he forgot the phrase “wherein is excess”. Only those who drink to excess are controlled by liquor. It says that in Eph. 5:18!

  1. “The Bible does not forbid priests to drink; only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation” In Isaiah 28:7 The priests did err through wine but given the above it was either because they drank it while on duty or more likely that they became drunk since it says “they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.” This is not describing one who drinks moderately, is it? These were people who were stoned!”
  2. “No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing.” “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself” Here you and the author add to scripture as well as take it out of context. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
  3. “No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil” Here he quoted from the NIV, the actual word is “appearance” not “form”. Is there an appearance of evil when you take a glass and put it to your lips? Don’t forget that drinking juice or wine or ginger ale looks exactly the same to an observer. You appear evil when you act drunk, even if you’ve had no wine, like the “Toronto Blessing”. He is also assuming that drinking is a form of evil. Given Deuteronomy 14:26 and all the verses quoted here this assumption is just plain wrong. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on!
  4. “No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble: Romans 14:21” It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. So what does verse 22 mean? Does it mean “you have freedom but don’t exercise it”? Or does it mean that one who has faith and freedom must exercise the utmost caution so he doesn’t cause a weaker brother to stumble? I think the latter is most likely true. Why do you, and they, only use verse 21? Isn’t the rest part of the word of God? To say that Christians who drink cause others to stumble is only the opinion of the author, and is also an assumption that it must always be the case. The verse in question leaves it up to the judgment of the reader. It is not saying that drinking will always cause a brother to stumble, otherwise it would also be saying that about eating flesh. We know the apostles didn’t have a problem with eating flesh, but some did: Romans 14: 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: The whole of Romans 14 deserves much study, but since we haven’t the time I just wan’t to briefly point out that this doesn’t mean that one should never eat meat, but to be careful and wise when one does, the same goes for wine and strong drink. I submit to you that IF ONE IS ABLE TO DRINK ALCOHOL WITHOUT OFFENDING A BROTHER THEN ONE IS FREE TO DO SO. Romans 14 also talks about keeping days. Are you aware that some Christians are offended when you keep Dec. 25 as the Lords birthday? Is their faith going to be made weak if you keep Christmas? Is your faith going to be made weak if a brother has a little wine? I know that some brothers will be made weak, specifically former alcoholics. So clearly one shouldn’t drink when he doesn’t know the spiritual condition of his companions.
  5. “No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver(Proverbs.20:1)” Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Is one who has one glass of wine “raging”? Only one who is drunk is mocked by wine.

Regarding Phil. 4:5 Mr. Lackey implies that the KJV translators were wrong to use the word MODERATION in this instance. He says that since the same word was translated differently in other places that it really can’t mean MODERATION. So here we have an instance of “higher criticism” showing it’s ugly head even amongst fundamentalists, the hour indeed is late! Obviously MODERATION is another meaning of the word and the Lord led the translators to this particular translation. If the KJV isn’t perfect then we may as well use the new translations. The Catholics use the same tactic when they say that the word brother can also mean cousins, and Jesus is really an only child, and Mary died a virgin! I think I’ll trust God’s book rather than a man who hasn’t even lived 100 years yet!

It seems to me that you are very careful to pick and choose the verses you will use. If you use all the verses that contain wine and strong drink, you can only come to one conclusion; that wine and strong drink are acceptable when used in moderation and care.

Regarding the problems in Russia and the social ills that come with such a society. Where does it say that the church is to concern itself with the problems of this world? Those problems would be there whether or not alcohol was present in that society! As you said their problem is a heart problem not an alcohol problem. The alcohol ABUSE is a symptom, not the root cause. Not only this but if all the problems in society were solved no one would ever think they need a saviour. How many “moderate drinkers” ever come to you for help? I expect the answer is none, or very few, but they are in the majority of drinkers. Only those that come to the end of themselves realize that they need a Saviour.

As for the woman who committed adultery when her inhibitions were lowered due to alcohol use. It reminds me of Flip Wilson in the 70’s saying “da devil made me do it!”. I don’t believe the devil ever “made” anyone sin, and neither did alcohol make her sin. I think adultery was already in her heart before she had the first sip. What was she doing drinking without her husband present anyway? Why was she drinking in the presence of another man? Did she have no regard for the warnings about wine in the bible? Though moderate drinking may be acceptable, those warnings are still there. I think you have oversimplified the situation. I think she is looking for someone or something else to blame instead of bearing the responsibility herself. Yes too much alcohol will lower ones inhibitions, but it is that which is already present that will come out. If a man has anger or hate in his heart he may beat his wife or children when he is drunk. If they can’t take one drink without having another they shouldn’t have the first. But this doesn’t mean that no one should drink, only those who have a problem with it.

The author says that “Christ did not come to cause others to stumble!” Please look at the following verses:

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

So, many were predicted to stumble over Jesus, yes they stumble over the cross but this does not rule out other things that they might stumble over. I don’t think the author is being totally honest.

A few years ago my son’s Sunday school teacher (at Emmanuel Baptist) told the class that drinking is a sin. He went home and told his mother that drinking was a sin (he was 5 years old at the time). My ex-wife and her husband were offended and told him that if I took him to church again that they would come and physically remove him from the premises. This caused such a big problem (and many sleepless nights) that we ended up going to a counsellor over it. The unbelieving (I think) counsellor convinced them that it was OK for Alex to go to church with me. The sad thing is that it was totally unnecessary. I also believe that it has permanently prejudiced two people against ever darkening the doorway of a Baptist church!

Many Great Christian leaders over the centuries had no problem if a brother had a little alcohol, including, but not limited to, John Huss and Martin Luther. The Primitive Baptists also use fermented wine in their Lord’s Supper services. I disagree with their Calvinism but not to this particular practice, they have sound reasons for doing it. I have recently read a book that identifies the teaching, that drinking wine is sinfull, as a part of the Great Apostasy. At first I was a little offended, but I looked in the scriptures and found that it seems he was right. I don’t believe that this teaching is much over 100-150 years old. Yes preachers of old did preach against drunkenness, but I have not seen any evidence that it extended to alcohol itself. I suppose it’s possible that a few did, but as seen above it was and is unscriptural.

I don’t have a problem if you say “I don’t recommend anyone drinking”. Neither does it bother me if you say that “drinking alcohol is risky”. If you want to preach against drunkenness I’ll back you 100%. But when you make a blanket statement that “we are commanded not to drink liquor” this is not true. When you say drinking is sin you are missrepresenting the bible, and inducing contradictions to scripture. Maybe it is if one “drinks with offence”, but this does not mean that it is always a sin. When you say that priests were commanded not to drink wine or strong drink you have only spoken a half truth. Don’t be afraid of the whole truth.

If you really believe Christians shouldn’t drink, there are some verses you could use without saying drinking is sin, for instance:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So for some people self denial probably does mean abstaining from drink. I don’t think it is required of the Lord for everyone, but perhaps he will honour those who give up alcohol, of their own free will, as a sacrifice to him. In the Old Testament they did not sacrifice unclean things to God, but clean. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask the Lord’s people to make a sacrifice of something that’s a legitimate right. I don’t think it’s right to demand it, however, since the Lord himself doesn’t do so.

There are a couple of verses that neither you nor the Way of Life Encyclopedia have brought up, and even I forgot about, but I believe they bear strongly on the topic at hand:

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

One who is drunk is clearly under the power of alcohol, but these verses don’t say specifically alcohol. Since it doesn’t specifically mention any substance by name I believe it is up to the individual believer which ones apply to him. (Just because one may do something it doesn’t mean one must do it) I think the principles here can be applied to a number of substances. If I have coffee in the evening I will not sleep that night, or maybe I’ll get a couple hours of sleep, so I would be under the power of caffeine. Therefore I rarely drink regular coffee and if I do it shouldn’t be after six in the evening, otherwise I suffer consequences for some time. One who is a drug addict is also under the power of drugs, and should avoid them. The problem is that some people can live an entire lifetime drinking a little wine, and never get drunk. These people are never controlled by alcohol and they know it. They may not commit adultery, rob or commit murder. Their only sin may be covetousness or impure thoughts. When you say that drinking is sin they know from their own experience that they are self controlled and not sinning, and they may end up rejecting the entire message. I believe this is a tragedy, although the Lord did predict it himself when he said “for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

I have not brought into the discussion the health benefits of drinking that science has discovered. If alcohol were the most healthy drink in the world, but the bible said not to drink it, one would be a fool to do so. But I think I have proved that the bible does not command abstinence. And there are health benefits to moderate consumption of alcohol. If the doctor prescribed one pill a day and you saved it up and took them all on a Saturday night, would you expect to get any health benefit? Not only does the grape part of red wine help lower the LDL Cholesterol, (and this benefit can be gained by regular eating of grapes), but the alcohol itself stimulates the liver to produce the good cholesterol or HDL. The only other way to increase the HDL is through exercise. By the way aerobic exercise produces a type of alcohol in your body, it partially breaks down sugars without oxygen. I believe that this alcohol is what stimulates the liver to produce HDL cholesterol. (Ever hear of “runners high”?)(this is not the same type of alcohol that one gets from a bottle, but it is definitely a type of alcohol)

After listening to your tape on wine in the bible I don’t believe you have a sound biblical basis for where you stand. I think you have ignored some important verses in the bible, and others you have taken out of context. I don’t think a man of God needs to do that.

I thank you for what you said about bible study on Sunday, it’s too bad more people didn’t hear it. Some I have met think you are a proud or a hard man, but what I heard on Sunday was a man truly seeking the will of God for himself and his people. I have prayed much about this issue and believe that what I have said is biblical. The Lord did show me that I needed to make some changes to my letter. However I still believe that this viewpoint is the only one that harmonizes all of scripture, I don’t have to be afraid of any verse. While I haven’t used every verse that touches upon this subject, the ones I have used are representative of the others.

Your brother in Christ,

“Dear Brother Knezacek:”

“Thank you for your letter of Dec, 6, received recently, I appreciate your concern that I be biblical in my statements from the pulpit and I assure you that is also my priority.”

“Like you, I also agree Molson’s ad campaign using “I Am” is indeed blasphemous and I have in the past, written the company as well as letters to the Editor about this.”

“You have done a good study on wine in the Bible, however, I don’t believe you have gone far enough. Please read the following information taken from The Way of life Encyclopedia and listen to the tape of a message I preached on the subject. This information will answer many of the concerns you have expressed in your letter. If you still feel your concerns have not been dealt with, let me know and we can discuss this subject further.”

“1 have listened to the tape from the message on the Sunday you said I “launched into a tirade against Molson’s breweries.” Webster’s Dictionary says a Tirade is “,.a long, vehement speech, esp. one of denunciation; harangue.” The total length of time spent on making that comment was 57 seconds, which hardly qualifies as a tirade, This wasn’t even a sub-point in the message, but merely a comment and was not intended to be an in- depth study on Wine in the Bible.”

“You mention that the Pharisees were not stupid and would not have accused Jesus of being a winebibber if he were not drinking alcoholic beverage. Does that mean they also would not have accused Him of having a Devil, or could not have bribed false witnesses against Jesus at His trial. Oh, yes, these men were very capable of telling vicious lies.”

“Not only has your study on Bible Wines not gone far enough, but your ‘facts’ on the problems of alcohol abuse in countries where it is in regular use has not gone far enough. The problems of alcoholism in Russia is well documented. Also the problems of obesity and heart disease may be less in those countries, hut problem of liver disease and other alcohol related problems are rampant. This is to say nothing of the mountain of social ills that come with such a society.”

“After listening to my message on wine and reading the material l have included, I think you will agree that I have a sound biblical basis for standing where I do on this subject. I have not tried to answer all your concerns in this letter, since I deal with most of them in the message that is on the tape.”

“I also know that I will report to God someday about what I have preached and what I had done as a pastor of this church. I know that I can stand before God with a clear conscious on this subject. Even the unsaved agree the biggest drug problem in the world today is the drug of alcohol. How could we as Christians promote it’s use, even responsibly? Does your position also hold true for moderate use of marijuana, or cocaine, or tobacco? Do you really believe you can drink a beer to the ‘glory of God?’ All that we do should be done to His glory.”

“I also have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of your position that a pastor can’t drink alcohol, but Jesus could. Certainly you don’t feel the position of the Pastor is of more importance in testimony and example than that of our Saviour.”

“I know of one Christian lady who was unfaithful to her husband, because her inhibitions were lowered and her thinking clouded because of alcohol. Had she abstained, this situation would never have happened, I could go on an on.”

“If you really want to be safe on this subject, you will abstain entirely. Any other position cannot be responsibly defended for the Christian who believes and practices holiness. The heart, here, is the issue, The heart will determine what kind of testimony we are to the world.”

“I am glad you wrote, for it gives me an opportunity express to you what I believe on this subject. I am not angry with you for not agreeing, but do hope you will prayerfully consider this information.”

“Sincerely, for souls,”

Pastor Roy,

Heritage Church,

Ontario, Canada

01/15/2000

Dear Pastor Roy,

Thank you for your quick reply to my letter. I was actually surprised at the speed of your response. You did read all of the verses I brought to your attention? The reason I ask is that you did not tackle Deuteronomy. 14:26 at all. I have listened to one of your tapes (the other two were blank!), and I must agree with much of what you said, however I must disagree with your ultimate conclusion. Many times you said yourself that the problem was drunkenness. This I agree with. You also said many things that I believe are half truths and even twisting of scripture. Please let me prove my point. Furthermore what you said in May of ’97 was essentially a word for word copy of the article on the Way of Life web site, which I have already read, and in fact was attempting to answer with my first letter.

I do hope you will find this to be constructive criticism and not destructive. It is not my purpose to tear you down, but to show that we can trust the Lord even when he says things we don’t like. I’m afraid my first letter may have been too antagonistic, and I apologize for that. I do hope that you don’t find this hostile or boring.

When someone asks you if you drink. You will automatically answer “No”, won’t you? You understand the word drink to mean alcohol. This is exactly the same context that Jesus said in Matthew 11:19 ‘The Son of man came eating and drinking”. So we have from his own lips that he drank wine. He was not disobeying the Old testament Laws if he drank a little alcohol. Please consider the following:

Lev. 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, WHEN they enter into the inner court.

Please note that this was a temporary ban on alcohol, only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation”. It was not a lifelong ban! The little word “when” is a part of the word of God! Please don’t ignore it. Don’t stop with “nor thy sons with thee”, surely God intended for us to read the whole verse? I notice that in the section from the Way of Life encyclopedia that you gave me, that this phrase is removed. This verse is a complete thought, they do wrong to take a part out of it! Let’s see what Websters says about the word “when” – when adv. at what time.—conj. AT THE TIME! Sometimes when people participate in “higher learning” they forget what little words mean. I hope you just forgot what what it meant, or just missed the point, because if you purposely ignored it I would call that deceitful! By the way when Jesus was at the wedding in Cana or associating with drinkers he was not in the tabernacle of the congregation nor in the inner court!

Of course he does not drink wine now that he is our high priest, not even unfermented wine: Mark 14:25 “Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Numbers 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please note that the Lord required STRONG WINE to be poured unto the Lord as part of the drink offering. How could it be called a drink offering if it wasn’t consumed as a drink? You say wine is unclean. Are you saying that the Lord required an unclean thing on his alter? Strong Wine is alcoholic wine! I can only echo the Lord in this case:

Acts 10:15 What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Since you didn’t respond to Deuteronomy. 14:26 I will repeat what I said, but first I must ask; Was the Lord commanding the Jews to partake of something unclean in their worship of Him? It is my belief, (given 1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.) that wine is a holy thing, or at least a clean thing that should be treated with respect and not abused. Certainly everything that exists belongs to the Lord, and nothing should be abused, including food or wine.:

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This verse brings to mind some questions which I think are quite relevant:

1) If the Lord told his people to drink “wine or strong drink” why should we think that the Lord Jesus didn’t drink these beverages when he partook of the Jewish religious ceremonies?

2) Why would their soul “lusteth after” strong drink if they never had any exposure to it? If strong drink is such an evil thing why does the Lord tell them to rejoice when they partake of it? (lust in this context simply means “to have a passionate desire”)

3) Did the Lord tell them it was OK to partake of wine and strong drink and then later change his mind? Could you trust such a fickle God to save your soul? Maybe a million years into eternity he might say “I’m tired of all these glorified believers, I think I’ll just toss them out into utter darkness”! If God gave permission for one group to use it and then turned around and called it a sin for another group we would never know where we stood. He might say one day that salvation is by faith, and the next say it’s by works!

4) Did the Lord expect the Jewish believers to buy their strong drink from unbelievers or from believers?

Strong drink is today the same as it always has been…alcohol! Please note also that the money referred to here is their tithe money!

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

You also quoted 2 Cor. 6:17 out of context. Lets look at the context:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

What God is calling unclean is idols and unbelievers, not alcohol! We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and believe me, I know the pain that results from this!

Jesus said: Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Paul also said: Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Nothing means NOTHING! If God wanted to say “something” he could have. What is it to be defiled? Is not one who sins defiled? Jesus said that something going in the mouth will not defile a man! Do you believe Jesus or not? I’m asking you to trust him in this, even though it goes against the grain. No man was ever defiled by drink, it is what comes out of him after he has had too much that defiles him. Yes that also applies to caffeine, marijuana and even cocaine. One cc of pure caffeine will kill you, yet you drink it on a regular basis. (My mistake; pastor Roy does not drink coffee, cola or anything that has caffeine in it, though his Church does serve it after the service on Sunday mornings. He is consistent in this.)

It also causes health problems in some of us! Did you know that chocolate, besides caffeine, has a chemical in it that is a close relative of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana? No wonder chocolate is addictive! Are you defiled when you eat chocolate? Caffeine is a drug, and an addictive substance, this is a proven fact, why do you think the soft drink makers put it in their pop? Are you saying that you can decide which drug is OK to use and which is not? People who smoke don’t get any more effect than people who drink coffee, so why is one OK and one not? I know some Christians who don’t drink alcohol or coffee, tea or cola or smoke. While I don’t agree with them, I have much respect for their consistency. I don’t believe you are consistent! You said in your tape that you wouldn’t eat food that was cooked in wine, even though the alcohol would have dissipated. I suspect that if you look in your closets you will find some vanilla flavoring or lemon or almond or perhaps some other flavor. You may even find a bottle of Scope or Nyquil. All of these things also contain alcohol. If it is a sin to touch even a little alcohol then I think it is likely that you have some confessing to do.

By the way I think that what Paul meant in Romans 14:14 is that if you think that the Lord commanded you not to do something, even if you are wrong and he really allows it, you would be sinning to do it because you are rebelling against your own understanding of God.

As for me being inconsistent with my statements on the following…

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to MUCH wine, teachers of good things;

I think you are accusing the Lord of being inconsistent, it’s what He says, not me!

I found I had to look up the word “given” – “naturally disposed toward.” usually followed by “to”. So, it doesn’t mean he can’t partake of wine or strong drink, only that he can’t be naturally disposed toward it. I don’t have a problem with pastors having a little wine at the Lords supper, even alcoholic wine. I think pastors could have a little wine on occasion, but not as a regular thing, isn’t that what this passage says? It also makes a distinction between a pastor and one of lower position. Since this is the Word of the Lord we must conclude that, while we are all priests, there is a difference in the requirements for some priests than others.

Let me give an example of what I think it means by “not given to wine”: A few years ago I read in the introduction of a book about cartooning techniques an account of a dinner given to honour the cartoonist Charles Schultz, the creator of Charlie Brown. The author, an unbelieving journalist, noticed that Mr. Schultz barely touched his wine. He had a few sips but didn’t even finish one glass. This behaviour was quite perplexing to the author, to the point that he even made mention of it in a book. I don’t know if it did but it’s the type of behaviour that could lead to witnessing opportunities. Mr. Schultz was not given to wine, in my opinion.

In your letter you passed on a part of the Way of Life encyclopedia, which I am already familiar with. (I’ve had correspondence with David Cloud, his ministry is partly why we are attending Heritage). In the section titled “IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?” it says;

1) ” No, even slight drinking impairs one’s thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Pe. 5:8,9). When I looked at this verse it does not say what he just said it says. It says “be sober, be vigilant”. It does not say in the least that one should not have any alcohol! What is sober to one person may be two or three drinks to another. When a man drives to Toronto, works a 12 hour shift or more, and then drives home, he is already impaired (by fatigue) without drinking any alcohol! He is sober, yet slightly impaired.”

2) “No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Eph5:18)” This is true but he forgot the phrase “wherein is excess”. Only those who drink to excess are controlled by liquor. It says that in Eph. 5:18!

  1. “The Bible does not forbid priests to drink; only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation” In Isaiah 28:7 The priests did err through wine but given the above it was either because they drank it while on duty or more likely that they became drunk since it says “they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.” This is not describing one who drinks moderately, is it? These were people who were stoned!”
  2. “No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing.” “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself” Here you and the author add to scripture as well as take it out of context. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
  3. “No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil” Here he quoted from the NIV, the actual word is “appearance” not “form”. Is there an appearance of evil when you take a glass and put it to your lips? Don’t forget that drinking juice or wine or ginger ale looks exactly the same to an observer. You appear evil when you act drunk, even if you’ve had no wine, like the “Toronto Blessing”. He is also assuming that drinking is a form of evil. Given Deuteronomy 14:26 and all the verses quoted here this assumption is just plain wrong. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on!
  4. “No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble: Romans 14:21” It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. So what does verse 22 mean? Does it mean “you have freedom but don’t exercise it”? Or does it mean that one who has faith and freedom must exercise the utmost caution so he doesn’t cause a weaker brother to stumble? I think the latter is most likely true. Why do you, and they, only use verse 21? Isn’t the rest part of the word of God? To say that Christians who drink cause others to stumble is only the opinion of the author, and is also an assumption that it must always be the case. The verse in question leaves it up to the judgment of the reader. It is not saying that drinking will always cause a brother to stumble, otherwise it would also be saying that about eating flesh. We know the apostles didn’t have a problem with eating flesh, but some did: Romans 14: 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: The whole of Romans 14 deserves much study, but since we haven’t the time I just wan’t to briefly point out that this doesn’t mean that one should never eat meat, but to be careful and wise when one does, the same goes for wine and strong drink. I submit to you that IF ONE IS ABLE TO DRINK ALCOHOL WITHOUT OFFENDING A BROTHER THEN ONE IS FREE TO DO SO. Romans 14 also talks about keeping days. Are you aware that some Christians are offended when you keep Dec. 25 as the Lords birthday? Is their faith going to be made weak if you keep Christmas? Is your faith going to be made weak if a brother has a little wine? I know that some brothers will be made weak, specifically former alcoholics. So clearly one shouldn’t drink when he doesn’t know the spiritual condition of his companions.
  5. “No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver(Proverbs.20:1)” Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Is one who has one glass of wine “raging”? Only one who is drunk is mocked by wine.

Regarding Phil. 4:5 Mr. Lackey implies that the KJV translators were wrong to use the word MODERATION in this instance. He says that since the same word was translated differently in other places that it really can’t mean MODERATION. So here we have an instance of “higher criticism” showing it’s ugly head even amongst fundamentalists, the hour indeed is late! Obviously MODERATION is another meaning of the word and the Lord led the translators to this particular translation. If the KJV isn’t perfect then we may as well use the new translations. The Catholics use the same tactic when they say that the word brother can also mean cousins, and Jesus is really an only child, and Mary died a virgin! I think I’ll trust God’s book rather than a man who hasn’t even lived 100 years yet!

It seems to me that you are very careful to pick and choose the verses you will use. If you use all the verses that contain wine and strong drink, you can only come to one conclusion; that wine and strong drink are acceptable when used in moderation and care.

Regarding the problems in Russia and the social ills that come with such a society. Where does it say that the church is to concern itself with the problems of this world? Those problems would be there whether or not alcohol was present in that society! As you said their problem is a heart problem not an alcohol problem. The alcohol ABUSE is a symptom, not the root cause. Not only this but if all the problems in society were solved no one would ever think they need a saviour. How many “moderate drinkers” ever come to you for help? I expect the answer is none, or very few, but they are in the majority of drinkers. Only those that come to the end of themselves realize that they need a Saviour.

As for the woman who committed adultery when her inhibitions were lowered due to alcohol use. It reminds me of Flip Wilson in the 70’s saying “da devil made me do it!”. I don’t believe the devil ever “made” anyone sin, and neither did alcohol make her sin. I think adultery was already in her heart before she had the first sip. What was she doing drinking without her husband present anyway? Why was she drinking in the presence of another man? Did she have no regard for the warnings about wine in the bible? Though moderate drinking may be acceptable, those warnings are still there. I think you have oversimplified the situation. I think she is looking for someone or something else to blame instead of bearing the responsibility herself. Yes too much alcohol will lower ones inhibitions, but it is that which is already present that will come out. If a man has anger or hate in his heart he may beat his wife or children when he is drunk. If they can’t take one drink without having another they shouldn’t have the first. But this doesn’t mean that no one should drink, only those who have a problem with it.

The author says that “Christ did not come to cause others to stumble!” Please look at the following verses:

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

So, many were predicted to stumble over Jesus, yes they stumble over the cross but this does not rule out other things that they might stumble over. I don’t think the author is being totally honest.

A few years ago my son’s Sunday school teacher (at Emmanuel Baptist) told the class that drinking is a sin. He went home and told his mother that drinking was a sin (he was 5 years old at the time). My ex-wife and her husband were offended and told him that if I took him to church again that they would come and physically remove him from the premises. This caused such a big problem (and many sleepless nights) that we ended up going to a counsellor over it. The unbelieving (I think) counsellor convinced them that it was OK for Alex to go to church with me. The sad thing is that it was totally unnecessary. I also believe that it has permanently prejudiced two people against ever darkening the doorway of a Baptist church!

Many Great Christian leaders over the centuries had no problem if a brother had a little alcohol, including, but not limited to, John Huss and Martin Luther. The Primitive Baptists also use fermented wine in their Lord’s Supper services. I disagree with their Calvinism but not to this particular practice, they have sound reasons for doing it. I have recently read a book that identifies the teaching, that drinking wine is sinfull, as a part of the Great Apostasy. At first I was a little offended, but I looked in the scriptures and found that it seems he was right. I don’t believe that this teaching is much over 100-150 years old. Yes preachers of old did preach against drunkenness, but I have not seen any evidence that it extended to alcohol itself. I suppose it’s possible that a few did, but as seen above it was and is unscriptural.

I don’t have a problem if you say “I don’t recommend anyone drinking”. Neither does it bother me if you say that “drinking alcohol is risky”. If you want to preach against drunkenness I’ll back you 100%. But when you make a blanket statement that “we are commanded not to drink liquor” this is not true. When you say drinking is sin you are missrepresenting the bible, and inducing contradictions to scripture. Maybe it is if one “drinks with offence”, but this does not mean that it is always a sin. When you say that priests were commanded not to drink wine or strong drink you have only spoken a half truth. Don’t be afraid of the whole truth.

If you really believe Christians shouldn’t drink, there are some verses you could use without saying drinking is sin, for instance:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So for some people self denial probably does mean abstaining from drink. I don’t think it is required of the Lord for everyone, but perhaps he will honour those who give up alcohol, of their own free will, as a sacrifice to him. In the Old Testament they did not sacrifice unclean things to God, but clean. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask the Lord’s people to make a sacrifice of something that’s a legitimate right. I don’t think it’s right to demand it, however, since the Lord himself doesn’t do so.

There are a couple of verses that neither you nor the Way of Life Encyclopedia have brought up, and even I forgot about, but I believe they bear strongly on the topic at hand:

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

One who is drunk is clearly under the power of alcohol, but these verses don’t say specifically alcohol. Since it doesn’t specifically mention any substance by name I believe it is up to the individual believer which ones apply to him. (Just because one may do something it doesn’t mean one must do it) I think the principles here can be applied to a number of substances. If I have coffee in the evening I will not sleep that night, or maybe I’ll get a couple hours of sleep, so I would be under the power of caffeine. Therefore I rarely drink regular coffee and if I do it shouldn’t be after six in the evening, otherwise I suffer consequences for some time. One who is a drug addict is also under the power of drugs, and should avoid them. The problem is that some people can live an entire lifetime drinking a little wine, and never get drunk. These people are never controlled by alcohol and they know it. They may not commit adultery, rob or commit murder. Their only sin may be covetousness or impure thoughts. When you say that drinking is sin they know from their own experience that they are self controlled and not sinning, and they may end up rejecting the entire message. I believe this is a tragedy, although the Lord did predict it himself when he said “for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

I have not brought into the discussion the health benefits of drinking that science has discovered. If alcohol were the most healthy drink in the world, but the bible said not to drink it, one would be a fool to do so. But I think I have proved that the bible does not command abstinence. And there are health benefits to moderate consumption of alcohol. If the doctor prescribed one pill a day and you saved it up and took them all on a Saturday night, would you expect to get any health benefit? Not only does the grape part of red wine help lower the LDL Cholesterol, (and this benefit can be gained by regular eating of grapes), but the alcohol itself stimulates the liver to produce the good cholesterol or HDL. The only other way to increase the HDL is through exercise. By the way aerobic exercise produces a type of alcohol in your body, it partially breaks down sugars without oxygen. I believe that this alcohol is what stimulates the liver to produce HDL cholesterol. (Ever hear of “runners high”?)(this is not the same type of alcohol that one gets from a bottle, but it is definitely a type of alcohol)

After listening to your tape on wine in the bible I don’t believe you have a sound biblical basis for where you stand. I think you have ignored some important verses in the bible, and others you have taken out of context. I don’t think a man of God needs to do that.

I thank you for what you said about bible study on Sunday, it’s too bad more people didn’t hear it. Some I have met think you are a proud or a hard man, but what I heard on Sunday was a man truly seeking the will of God for himself and his people. I have prayed much about this issue and believe that what I have said is biblical. The Lord did show me that I needed to make some changes to my letter. However I still believe that this viewpoint is the only one that harmonizes all of scripture, I don’t have to be afraid of any verse. While I haven’t used every verse that touches upon this subject, the ones I have used are representative of the others.

Your brother in Christ,

Dan Knezacek

Dan Knezacek

Dan Knezacek

ven’t used every verse that touches upon this subject, the ones I have used are representative of the others.

Your brother in Christ,

“Dear Brother Knezacek:”

“Thank you for your letter of Dec, 6, received recently, I appreciate your concern that I be biblical in my statements from the pulpit and I assure you that is also my priority.”

“Like you, I also agree Molson’s ad campaign using “I Am” is indeed blasphemous and I have in the past, written the company as well as letters to the Editor about this.”

“You have done a good study on wine in the Bible, however, I don’t believe you have gone far enough. Please read the following information taken from The Way of life Encyclopedia and listen to the tape of a message I preached on the subject. This information will answer many of the concerns you have expressed in your letter. If you still feel your concerns have not been dealt with, let me know and we can discuss this subject further.”

“1 have listened to the tape from the message on the Sunday you said I “launched into a tirade against Molson’s breweries.” Webster’s Dictionary says a Tirade is “,.a long, vehement speech, esp. one of denunciation; harangue.” The total length of time spent on making that comment was 57 seconds, which hardly qualifies as a tirade, This wasn’t even a sub-point in the message, but merely a comment and was not intended to be an in- depth study on Wine in the Bible.”

“You mention that the Pharisees were not stupid and would not have accused Jesus of being a winebibber if he were not drinking alcoholic beverage. Does that mean they also would not have accused Him of having a Devil, or could not have bribed false witnesses against Jesus at His trial. Oh, yes, these men were very capable of telling vicious lies.”

“Not only has your study on Bible Wines not gone far enough, but your ‘facts’ on the problems of alcohol abuse in countries where it is in regular use has not gone far enough. The problems of alcoholism in Russia is well documented. Also the problems of obesity and heart disease may be less in those countries, hut problem of liver disease and other alcohol related problems are rampant. This is to say nothing of the mountain of social ills that come with such a society.”

“After listening to my message on wine and reading the material l have included, I think you will agree that I have a sound biblical basis for standing where I do on this subject. I have not tried to answer all your concerns in this letter, since I deal with most of them in the message that is on the tape.”

“I also know that I will report to God someday about what I have preached and what I had done as a pastor of this church. I know that I can stand before God with a clear conscious on this subject. Even the unsaved agree the biggest drug problem in the world today is the drug of alcohol. How could we as Christians promote it’s use, even responsibly? Does your position also hold true for moderate use of marijuana, or cocaine, or tobacco? Do you really believe you can drink a beer to the ‘glory of God?’ All that we do should be done to His glory.”

“I also have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of your position that a pastor can’t drink alcohol, but Jesus could. Certainly you don’t feel the position of the Pastor is of more importance in testimony and example than that of our Saviour.”

“I know of one Christian lady who was unfaithful to her husband, because her inhibitions were lowered and her thinking clouded because of alcohol. Had she abstained, this situation would never have happened, I could go on an on.”

“If you really want to be safe on this subject, you will abstain entirely. Any other position cannot be responsibly defended for the Christian who believes and practices holiness. The heart, here, is the issue, The heart will determine what kind of testimony we are to the world.”

“I am glad you wrote, for it gives me an opportunity express to you what I believe on this subject. I am not angry with you for not agreeing, but do hope you will prayerfully consider this information.”

“Sincerely, for souls,”

Pastor Roy,

Heritage Church,

Ontario, Canada

01/15/2000

Dear Pastor Roy,

Thank you for your quick reply to my letter. I was actually surprised at the speed of your response. You did read all of the verses I brought to your attention? The reason I ask is that you did not tackle Deuteronomy. 14:26 at all. I have listened to one of your tapes (the other two were blank!), and I must agree with much of what you said, however I must disagree with your ultimate conclusion. Many times you said yourself that the problem was drunkenness. This I agree with. You also said many things that I believe are half truths and even twisting of scripture. Please let me prove my point. Furthermore what you said in May of ’97 was essentially a word for word copy of the article on the Way of Life web site, which I have already read, and in fact was attempting to answer with my first letter.

I do hope you will find this to be constructive criticism and not destructive. It is not my purpose to tear you down, but to show that we can trust the Lord even when he says things we don’t like. I’m afraid my first letter may have been too antagonistic, and I apologize for that. I do hope that you don’t find this hostile or boring.

When someone asks you if you drink. You will automatically answer “No”, won’t you? You understand the word drink to mean alcohol. This is exactly the same context that Jesus said in Matthew 11:19 ‘The Son of man came eating and drinking”. So we have from his own lips that he drank wine. He was not disobeying the Old testament Laws if he drank a little alcohol. Please consider the following:

Lev. 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, WHEN they enter into the inner court.

Please note that this was a temporary ban on alcohol, only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation”. It was not a lifelong ban! The little word “when” is a part of the word of God! Please don’t ignore it. Don’t stop with “nor thy sons with thee”, surely God intended for us to read the whole verse? I notice that in the section from the Way of Life encyclopedia that you gave me, that this phrase is removed. This verse is a complete thought, they do wrong to take a part out of it! Let’s see what Websters says about the word “when” – when adv. at what time.—conj. AT THE TIME! Sometimes when people participate in “higher learning” they forget what little words mean. I hope you just forgot what what it meant, or just missed the point, because if you purposely ignored it I would call that deceitful! By the way when Jesus was at the wedding in Cana or associating with drinkers he was not in the tabernacle of the congregation nor in the inner court!

Of course he does not drink wine now that he is our high priest, not even unfermented wine: Mark 14:25 “Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Numbers 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please note that the Lord required STRONG WINE to be poured unto the Lord as part of the drink offering. How could it be called a drink offering if it wasn’t consumed as a drink? You say wine is unclean. Are you saying that the Lord required an unclean thing on his alter? Strong Wine is alcoholic wine! I can only echo the Lord in this case:

Acts 10:15 What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Since you didn’t respond to Deuteronomy. 14:26 I will repeat what I said, but first I must ask; Was the Lord commanding the Jews to partake of something unclean in their worship of Him? It is my belief, (given 1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.) that wine is a holy thing, or at least a clean thing that should be treated with respect and not abused. Certainly everything that exists belongs to the Lord, and nothing should be abused, including food or wine.:

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This verse brings to mind some questions which I think are quite relevant:

1) If the Lord told his people to drink “wine or strong drink” why should we think that the Lord Jesus didn’t drink these beverages when he partook of the Jewish religious ceremonies?

2) Why would their soul “lusteth after” strong drink if they never had any exposure to it? If strong drink is such an evil thing why does the Lord tell them to rejoice when they partake of it? (lust in this context simply means “to have a passionate desire”)

3) Did the Lord tell them it was OK to partake of wine and strong drink and then later change his mind? Could you trust such a fickle God to save your soul? Maybe a million years into eternity he might say “I’m tired of all these glorified believers, I think I’ll just toss them out into utter darkness”! If God gave permission for one group to use it and then turned around and called it a sin for another group we would never know where we stood. He might say one day that salvation is by faith, and the next say it’s by works!

4) Did the Lord expect the Jewish believers to buy their strong drink from unbelievers or from believers?

Strong drink is today the same as it always has been…alcohol! Please note also that the money referred to here is their tithe money!

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

You also quoted 2 Cor. 6:17 out of context. Lets look at the context:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

What God is calling unclean is idols and unbelievers, not alcohol! We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and believe me, I know the pain that results from this!

Jesus said: Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Paul also said: Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Nothing means NOTHING! If God wanted to say “something” he could have. What is it to be defiled? Is not one who sins defiled? Jesus said that something going in the mouth will not defile a man! Do you believe Jesus or not? I’m asking you to trust him in this, even though it goes against the grain. No man was ever defiled by drink, it is what comes out of him after he has had too much that defiles him. Yes that also applies to caffeine, marijuana and even cocaine. One cc of pure caffeine will kill you, yet you drink it on a regular basis. (My mistake; pastor Roy does not drink coffee, cola or anything that has caffeine in it, though his Church does serve it after the service on Sunday mornings. He is consistent in this.)

It also causes health problems in some of us! Did you know that chocolate, besides caffeine, has a chemical in it that is a close relative of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana? No wonder chocolate is addictive! Are you defiled when you eat chocolate? Caffeine is a drug, and an addictive substance, this is a proven fact, why do you think the soft drink makers put it in their pop? Are you saying that you can decide which drug is OK to use and which is not? People who smoke don’t get any more effect than people who drink coffee, so why is one OK and one not? I know some Christians who don’t drink alcohol or coffee, tea or cola or smoke. While I don’t agree with them, I have much respect for their consistency. I don’t believe you are consistent! You said in your tape that you wouldn’t eat food that was cooked in wine, even though the alcohol would have dissipated. I suspect that if you look in your closets you will find some vanilla flavoring or lemon or almond or perhaps some other flavor. You may even find a bottle of Scope or Nyquil. All of these things also contain alcohol. If it is a sin to touch even a little alcohol then I think it is likely that you have some confessing to do.

By the way I think that what Paul meant in Romans 14:14 is that if you think that the Lord commanded you not to do something, even if you are wrong and he really allows it, you would be sinning to do it because you are rebelling against your own understanding of God.

As for me being inconsistent with my statements on the following…

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to MUCH wine, teachers of good things;

I think you are accusing the Lord of being inconsistent, it’s what He says, not me!

I found I had to look up the word “given” – “naturally disposed toward.” usually followed by “to”. So, it doesn’t mean he can’t partake of wine or strong drink, only that he can’t be naturally disposed toward it. I don’t have a problem with pastors having a little wine at the Lords supper, even alcoholic wine. I think pastors could have a little wine on occasion, but not as a regular thing, isn’t that what this passage says? It also makes a distinction between a pastor and one of lower position. Since this is the Word of the Lord we must conclude that, while we are all priests, there is a difference in the requirements for some priests than others.

Let me give an example of what I think it means by “not given to wine”: A few years ago I read in the introduction of a book about cartooning techniques an account of a dinner given to honour the cartoonist Charles Schultz, the creator of Charlie Brown. The author, an unbelieving journalist, noticed that Mr. Schultz barely touched his wine. He had a few sips but didn’t even finish one glass. This behaviour was quite perplexing to the author, to the point that he even made mention of it in a book. I don’t know if it did but it’s the type of behaviour that could lead to witnessing opportunities. Mr. Schultz was not given to wine, in my opinion.

In your letter you passed on a part of the Way of Life encyclopedia, which I am already familiar with. (I’ve had correspondence with David Cloud, his ministry is partly why we are attending Heritage). In the section titled “IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?” it says;

1) ” No, even slight drinking impairs one’s thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Pe. 5:8,9). When I looked at this verse it does not say what he just said it says. It says “be sober, be vigilant”. It does not say in the least that one should not have any alcohol! What is sober to one person may be two or three drinks to another. When a man drives to Toronto, works a 12 hour shift or more, and then drives home, he is already impaired (by fatigue) without drinking any alcohol! He is sober, yet slightly impaired.”

2) “No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Eph5:18)” This is true but he forgot the phrase “wherein is excess”. Only those who drink to excess are controlled by liquor. It says that in Eph. 5:18!

  1. “The Bible does not forbid priests to drink; only “WHEN ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation” In Isaiah 28:7 The priests did err through wine but given the above it was either because they drank it while on duty or more likely that they became drunk since it says “they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.” This is not describing one who drinks moderately, is it? These were people who were stoned!”
  2. “No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing.” “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself” Here you and the author add to scripture as well as take it out of context. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
  3. “No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil” Here he quoted from the NIV, the actual word is “appearance” not “form”. Is there an appearance of evil when you take a glass and put it to your lips? Don’t forget that drinking juice or wine or ginger ale looks exactly the same to an observer. You appear evil when you act drunk, even if you’ve had no wine, like the “Toronto Blessing”. He is also assuming that drinking is a form of evil. Given Deuteronomy 14:26 and all the verses quoted here this assumption is just plain wrong. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on!
  4. “No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble: Romans 14:21” It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. So what does verse 22 mean? Does it mean “you have freedom but don’t exercise it”? Or does it mean that one who has faith and freedom must exercise the utmost caution so he doesn’t cause a weaker brother to stumble? I think the latter is most likely true. Why do you, and they, only use verse 21? Isn’t the rest part of the word of God? To say that Christians who drink cause others to stumble is only the opinion of the author, and is also an assumption that it must always be the case. The verse in question leaves it up to the judgment of the reader. It is not saying that drinking will always cause a brother to stumble, otherwise it would also be saying that about eating flesh. We know the apostles didn’t have a problem with eating flesh, but some did: Romans 14: 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: The whole of Romans 14 deserves much study, but since we haven’t the time I just wan’t to briefly point out that this doesn’t mean that one should never eat meat, but to be careful and wise when one does, the same goes for wine and strong drink. I submit to you that IF ONE IS ABLE TO DRINK ALCOHOL WITHOUT OFFENDING A BROTHER THEN ONE IS FREE TO DO SO. Romans 14 also talks about keeping days. Are you aware that some Christians are offended when you keep Dec. 25 as the Lords birthday? Is their faith going to be made weak if you keep Christmas? Is your faith going to be made weak if a brother has a little wine? I know that some brothers will be made weak, specifically former alcoholics. So clearly one shouldn’t drink when he doesn’t know the spiritual condition of his companions.
  5. “No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver(Proverbs.20:1)” Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Is one who has one glass of wine “raging”? Only one who is drunk is mocked by wine.

Regarding Phil. 4:5 Mr. Lackey implies that the KJV translators were wrong to use the word MODERATION in this instance. He says that since the same word was translated differently in other places that it really can’t mean MODERATION. So here we have an instance of “higher criticism” showing it’s ugly head even amongst fundamentalists, the hour indeed is late! Obviously MODERATION is another meaning of the word and the Lord led the translators to this particular translation. If the KJV isn’t perfect then we may as well use the new translations. The Catholics use the same tactic when they say that the word brother can also mean cousins, and Jesus is really an only child, and Mary died a virgin! I think I’ll trust God’s book rather than a man who hasn’t even lived 100 years yet!

It seems to me that you are very careful to pick and choose the verses you will use. If you use all the verses that contain wine and strong drink, you can only come to one conclusion; that wine and strong drink are acceptable when used in moderation and care.

Regarding the problems in Russia and the social ills that come with such a society. Where does it say that the church is to concern itself with the problems of this world? Those problems would be there whether or not alcohol was present in that society! As you said their problem is a heart problem not an alcohol problem. The alcohol ABUSE is a symptom, not the root cause. Not only this but if all the problems in society were solved no one would ever think they need a saviour. How many “moderate drinkers” ever come to you for help? I expect the answer is none, or very few, but they are in the majority of drinkers. Only those that come to the end of themselves realize that they need a Saviour.

As for the woman who committed adultery when her inhibitions were lowered due to alcohol use. It reminds me of Flip Wilson in the 70’s saying “da devil made me do it!”. I don’t believe the devil ever “made” anyone sin, and neither did alcohol make her sin. I think adultery was already in her heart before she had the first sip. What was she doing drinking without her husband present anyway? Why was she drinking in the presence of another man? Did she have no regard for the warnings about wine in the bible? Though moderate drinking may be acceptable, those warnings are still there. I think you have oversimplified the situation. I think she is looking for someone or something else to blame instead of bearing the responsibility herself. Yes too much alcohol will lower ones inhibitions, but it is that which is already present that will come out. If a man has anger or hate in his heart he may beat his wife or children when he is drunk. If they can’t take one drink without having another they shouldn’t have the first. But this doesn’t mean that no one should drink, only those who have a problem with it.

The author says that “Christ did not come to cause others to stumble!” Please look at the following verses:

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

So, many were predicted to stumble over Jesus, yes they stumble over the cross but this does not rule out other things that they might stumble over. I don’t think the author is being totally honest.

A few years ago my son’s Sunday school teacher (at Emmanuel Baptist) told the class that drinking is a sin. He went home and told his mother that drinking was a sin (he was 5 years old at the time). My ex-wife and her husband were offended and told him that if I took him to church again that they would come and physically remove him from the premises. This caused such a big problem (and many sleepless nights) that we ended up going to a counsellor over it. The unbelieving (I think) counsellor convinced them that it was OK for Alex to go to church with me. The sad thing is that it was totally unnecessary. I also believe that it has permanently prejudiced two people against ever darkening the doorway of a Baptist church!

Many Great Christian leaders over the centuries had no problem if a brother had a little alcohol, including, but not limited to, John Huss and Martin Luther. The Primitive Baptists also use fermented wine in their Lord’s Supper services. I disagree with their Calvinism but not to this particular practice, they have sound reasons for doing it. I have recently read a book that identifies the teaching, that drinking wine is sinfull, as a part of the Great Apostasy. At first I was a little offended, but I looked in the scriptures and found that it seems he was right. I don’t believe that this teaching is much over 100-150 years old. Yes preachers of old did preach against drunkenness, but I have not seen any evidence that it extended to alcohol itself. I suppose it’s possible that a few did, but as seen above it was and is unscriptural.

I don’t have a problem if you say “I don’t recommend anyone drinking”. Neither does it bother me if you say that “drinking alcohol is risky”. If you want to preach against drunkenness I’ll back you 100%. But when you make a blanket statement that “we are commanded not to drink liquor” this is not true. When you say drinking is sin you are missrepresenting the bible, and inducing contradictions to scripture. Maybe it is if one “drinks with offence”, but this does not mean that it is always a sin. When you say that priests were commanded not to drink wine or strong drink you have only spoken a half truth. Don’t be afraid of the whole truth.

If you really believe Christians shouldn’t drink, there are some verses you could use without saying drinking is sin, for instance:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So for some people self denial probably does mean abstaining from drink. I don’t think it is required of the Lord for everyone, but perhaps he will honour those who give up alcohol, of their own free will, as a sacrifice to him. In the Old Testament they did not sacrifice unclean things to God, but clean. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask the Lord’s people to make a sacrifice of something that’s a legitimate right. I don’t think it’s right to demand it, however, since the Lord himself doesn’t do so.

There are a couple of verses that neither you nor the Way of Life Encyclopedia have brought up, and even I forgot about, but I believe they bear strongly on the topic at hand:

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

One who is drunk is clearly under the power of alcohol, but these verses don’t say specifically alcohol. Since it doesn’t specifically mention any substance by name I believe it is up to the individual believer which ones apply to him. (Just because one may do something it doesn’t mean one must do it) I think the principles here can be applied to a number of substances. If I have coffee in the evening I will not sleep that night, or maybe I’ll get a couple hours of sleep, so I would be under the power of caffeine. Therefore I rarely drink regular coffee and if I do it shouldn’t be after six in the evening, otherwise I suffer consequences for some time. One who is a drug addict is also under the power of drugs, and should avoid them. The problem is that some people can live an entire lifetime drinking a little wine, and never get drunk. These people are never controlled by alcohol and they know it. They may not commit adultery, rob or commit murder. Their only sin may be covetousness or impure thoughts. When you say that drinking is sin they know from their own experience that they are self controlled and not sinning, and they may end up rejecting the entire message. I believe this is a tragedy, although the Lord did predict it himself when he said “for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

I have not brought into the discussion the health benefits of drinking that science has discovered. If alcohol were the most healthy drink in the world, but the bible said not to drink it, one would be a fool to do so. But I think I have proved that the bible does not command abstinence. And there are health benefits to moderate consumption of alcohol. If the doctor prescribed one pill a day and you saved it up and took them all on a Saturday night, would you expect to get any health benefit? Not only does the grape part of red wine help lower the LDL Cholesterol, (and this benefit can be gained by regular eating of grapes), but the alcohol itself stimulates the liver to produce the good cholesterol or HDL. The only other way to increase the HDL is through exercise. By the way aerobic exercise produces a type of alcohol in your body, it partially breaks down sugars without oxygen. I believe that this alcohol is what stimulates the liver to produce HDL cholesterol. (Ever hear of “runners high”?)(this is not the same type of alcohol that one gets from a bottle, but it is definitely a type of alcohol)

After listening to your tape on wine in the bible I don’t believe you have a sound biblical basis for where you stand. I think you have ignored some important verses in the bible, and others you have taken out of context. I don’t think a man of God needs to do that.

I thank you for what you said about bible study on Sunday, it’s too bad more people didn’t hear it. Some I have met think you are a proud or a hard man, but what I heard on Sunday was a man truly seeking the will of God for himself and his people. I have prayed much about this issue and believe that what I have said is biblical. The Lord did show me that I needed to make some changes to my letter. However I still believe that this viewpoint is the only one that harmonizes all of scripture, I don’t have to be afraid of any verse. While I haven’t used every verse that touches upon this subject, the ones I have used are representative of the others.

Your brother in Christ,

Dan Knezacek

Dan Knezacek

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What the Bible Teaches About Drinking Wine and Alcohol

The following article was posted on my website for a couple of years, but I felt that it distracted from the subject of eschatology, and so removed it.  The subject of alcohol and Christians came up recently on a social media site I am on, and so I thought I would repost it as a blog.  I will break it up into segments because it is rather long;

A debate consisting of a series of letters between Dan Knezacek and Fundamentalist Pastor… “Roy”

Though I have not addressed the subject of alcohol in “The Spirit of Prophecy” it is a serious matter. The way you treat any subject in the Word of God will have an effect on the way you interpret prophecy. If you are curious as to the way I do research, or are actually interested in what the bible says about the consumption of alcohol, you will find this article interesting.

Many Christians, while insisting that they follow the literal interpretation method of Scripture, often fall back on their own traditions when confronted with scripture that plainly says something different. I insist on always following the literal interpretation method, unless the passage in Question clearly is speaking in allegory. Sometimes there are deeper meanings than the normal, plain sense meaning of a passage, but the bible never contradicts the plain sense meaning.

The following is a debate consisting of a series of letters written between me and my then Pastor, (Let’s call him “Roy”) in 1999 and 2000. Though the letters are a few years old the subject is timeless. (Note: Name changed to protect the guilty. The aforementioned pastor does not want his name associated with that which he has written. If you really believe that what you are saying is from God why wouldn’t you want your name associated with it?)

The truth is that we have both made some errors. I certainly did in my early letters, and he caught them. These minor errors do not negate my point and I believe I did correct them in the later letters. As you read you will find that the depth of my responses got deeper the more I studied. Conflicts like this can actually be beneficial if it forces us to dig deeper in the Word of God.

Near the end I have inserted my responses between his paragraphs. I have written in Tahoma font and his letters are in Arial Italic. At times I have added comments after the fact, and these comments are in parentheses.

It has been several years since these letters passed between us. I do not know if Pastor “Roy” still holds these beliefs. I hope not. Many Christians get saved but stay babes in Christ their whole lives, living on milk and never progressing to meat.

I am not posting these letters to mock anyone, but to show how some pastors twist scripture to make it fit their preconceived ideas. The truth is that many preachers do the same thing on a wide variety of subjects, and doing so with regard to wine is less serious, in my opinion, than it is with many other subjects, although it certainly indicates a similar mindset. My advice to Pastor “Roy”, and to all Pastors is “Preach only the Word of God, and if you don’t like what’s there, preach it anyway, or go and get another job.”

With this in mind, I suggest you go and get a coffee before going any further. This article is rather long. If you would prefer a beer, or glass of wine, I would suggest you wait until you are done 🙂

Dec. 6, 1999

Pastor Roy

Heritage Church

Somewhere, Ontario

Dear Pastor Roy,

For many years I didn’t attend Heritage because of your stand on certain subjects and because of what some of my friends said, who had attended at one time or other. Due to the number of churches heading into ecumenism and an abandonment of the bible, we found ourselves at Heritage in March of this year. I was rather surprised that most of the teaching was very biblical. Some people told me that you’ll get a lot of milk there but not much meat, however, I’m afraid they weren’t entirely wrong.

Yesterday morning you launched into a tirade against Molson’s breweries, which I somewhat agreed with because of their blasphemous “I Am” ad campaign. That in itself is a good reason to boycott Molson breweries. But then you went on to condemn all breweries. I wonder which bible verse you use to justify condemnation of an entire industry? I’ve searched the bible and can’t find one.

In the evening service you said “we are commanded not to drink liquor”. I waited and you did not come up with any scripture to substantiate this claim. I looked and the only thing that comes close is:

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

This verse does not say “do not drink wine”, to make it say that is to change scripture, and abuse the English language.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You have taken out the word “drunk” and added the word “drink”. My friend this is a very serious thing. Just because the cause may be “good” doesn’t justify butchering God’s Holy Word! So here we have a case of the “good cause syndrome”. You can say anything if you have a good cause. The Catholics and other denominations feel they can also do the same thing in other areas of the bible.

Please note in Ephesians 5:18 it says “wherein is excess”, the Lord put that in for a reason! If he had wanted to say something else he could have. Why the need for the command if Christians didn’t drink as a rule?

In your text for the evening Phil 4:4 I was surprised that you didn’t go to the next verse as it would have fit with your subject: Phillipians 4:5 “Let your MODERATION be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand”. Oh, I guess it doesn’t fit, I thought it said ABSTINENCE. So, we are commanded to MODERATION not ABSTINENCE or extremism. I guess I know why you avoided that verse. ABSTINENCE is a lot easier than moderation, who knows what moderation is? That might require reliance on the Holy Spirit, wisdom or even self control!

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

This verse brings to mind some questions which I think are quite relevant:

1) If the Lord told his people to drink “wine or strong drink” why should we think that the Lord Jesus didn’t drink these beverages when he partook of the Jewish religious ceremonies?

2) Why would their soul “lusteth after” strong drink if they never had any exposure to it? If strong drink is such an evil thing why does the Lord tell them to rejoice when they partake of it?

3) Did the Lord tell them it was OK to partake of wine and strong drink and then later change his mind? Could you trust such a fickle God to save your soul?

4) Did the Lord expect the Jewish believers to buy their strong drink from unbelievers or from believers?

David, Jacob and Gideon were polygamists. It is clear from scripture that these were great men of God, yet you’ll not find a verse where God said “ye shall marry as many women as thou wouldest have”. But he did say “And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, …or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth”

Strong drink is today the same as it always has been…alcohol! If God gave permission for one group to use it and then turned around and called it a sin for another group one would never know where one stood with such a God. He might say one day that salvation is by faith, and the next say it’s by works! Who could trust such a fickle God? Please note that the money referred to here is their tithe money!

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Isn’t the God of the Old Testament the same God who said:

Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Nothing means NOTHING! If God wanted to say “something” he could have. No man was ever defiled by drink, it is what comes out of him after he has had too much that defiles him. (The truth is that it is something inside a man that makes him drink to excess that defiles him, and it is there before he ever had his first drink.)

Note the very next verse:

Matthew 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

So the Pharisees were offended by what the Lord said in verse 11. Are you also offended by this saying of Jesus? So we see that the offense mentioned in Romans 14:21 is to cause a brother to stumble or be made weak, NOT to make him angry because he doesn’t like what you say or do.

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The Pharisees were evil men but they were not stupid. If Jesus was only drinking non-alcoholic grape juice then they would have had no reason to accuse him of being a winebibber! In both of these passages Jesus plainly admits to drinking alcoholic wine, but not to being drunk! He was not a drunk, drunkenness is sin, but not drinking a little wine. Nor is it a sin to associate with drinkers.

Non alcoholic wine was not invented until after Louis Pasteur in the late 1800’s. Don’t forget alcohol is a preservative. If wine was kept in wine skins or poorly sealed bottles then the alcohol would have dissipated until it got so low that the wine would spoil. This would explain why the apostles were accused of being drunk on “new wine”. Grape juice in the non-alcoholic state would only be available in the fall for a couple of weeks during harvest.

IF YOU SAY THAT DRINKING ALCOHOL IS SIN YOU ARE DENYING THE SINLESSNESS OF CHRIST AND HAVE NO SAVIOR! How could he die for your sins if he was a sinner? You are forced by your philosophy, then, to deny the literal interpretation of the Word of God!

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

From the very context of these verses the governor of the feast believed that this was alcoholic wine, if it wasn’t then Jesus would have been a deceiver. It was indistinguishable from regular wine. Wine tasters don’t even swallow their wine, yet they rinse their mouths out with water, and sometimes eat bread so the taste of one wine doesn’t affect their judgment of another!

Genesis 14:18-20 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. (isn’t Jesus a priest after the order of Melchizedek?)

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Drunkenness is sin)

This verse does not say “do not drink wine”, It only says not to be deceived by it If it does then Deuteronomy 14:26, Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8 are all lies! I’m not deceived, clearly this verse is aimed at those who linger long over their drink. Is one raging who has a glass of wine with their meal and then goes about their business? What about those in France, Italy and Spain who have wine at every meal? They have a lower alcoholism rate than North America! Not only this but they have less obesity and less heart disease! Allowing young people to have wine while under the supervision of their parents means that they are able to develop good drinking habits before they are able to go out on their own and buy drink without supervision.

Proverbs 21:17 He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich.

This verse does not say “do not drink wine”, it only says that those who love pleasure shall not be rich. Is pleasure always a sin? We are not to love it, that’s all. We are not to waste our resources on pleasure. Is consuming oil also a sin? If so then why do you serve doughnuts boiled in oil? Since both wine and oil are mentioned in the same context we must conclude that the Lord looks on them both in the same way. This verse is merely speaking of the physical consequences of drunkenness, not the spiritual!

Proverbs 26:9 As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of fools.

This verse does not say “do not drink wine”. It only says a drunk man has no feeling. Again it is merely speaking of the physical consequences of drunkenness, not the spiritual!

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

This verse does not say “do not drink wine”, It says let the poor and dying drink wine and STRONG DRINK! If this verse is not inspired of God then the same also goes for the preceding verses in Prov. 31. It may mean “the poor who are dying”, but a more likely interpretation is that the dying may drink strong drink and the poor may drink wine.

Numbers 6:20-21 And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine. (After a wave offering the Nazarite was permitted to sin? No, he was permitted to drink wine but obviously not to excess)

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

This verse does not say “do not drink wine”, only that we are not to be captivated by wine. We are to treat it as a thing to be used, and not to waste our time thinking about it. This does not say that one can’t have it with a meal, in moderation.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? HAVE IT TO THYSELF BEFORE GOD. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Why is it that men only quote from verse 21 when preaching against wine? Could it be that verses 20, 22 and 23 don’t support their point? Absolutely! If a man believes he has this freedom he should have it to himself and not exercise his freedom in a way that may offend a brother or sister. i.e. perhaps don’t drink in a public place and definitely stop before you are drunk. God hates drunkenness.

Are you willing to forego eating meat when in the presence of vegetarians? Your eating habits may offend them. If you are not willing to forego meat in deference to those who are offended by it then why should others give up wine just because you are offended? These verses were specifically talking about meat, we have just applied the same principles to wine.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to MUCH wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to MUCH wine, teachers of good things;

There is a difference here between the pastor or bishop and the rest of the flock. Why that little word “much”? It makes such a huge difference in the meaning. Pastors and Bishops must not be given to wine, period, but deacons and aged women should not be given to much wine. (People below the pastor are permitted a little wine.) So why do you have a higher standard than the apostle Paul? Why a higher standard than the Holy Spirit demands? Are you adding to scripture? When you tell your flock that they shouldn’t have any liquor in their house you are contradicting scripture. Aren’t you afraid the people will read their bibles and find you out?

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Why doesn’t the apostle here just say that “these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing that they always abstain from strong drink”? If it was true I have no doubt that he would have said it, if it was important to the Holy Spirit. If the apostles were preaching abstinence, this is a very strange thing to say!

I have heard a (Baptist) pastor say that the water was no good in the Holy land during the time of Christ and so they had to add a little wine to the water for it’s antiseptic qualities, to make it safe to drink. If this was true then why did Jesus ask for a drink of water from the woman at the well? If it was unsafe to drink wouldn’t she have given a different answer? Furthermore, watering down the wine would destroy it’s antiseptic qualities. I think that pastor was trying to explain away scripture.

Habakuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

Note that in Habakuk. 2:15 that this is one sentence. It doesn’t end with “Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink”, it goes on to say that the condemnation is for those who do it for the purpose “and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!” Don’t forget the “AND” and “THAT”, they are important. Those who give drink FOR THE PURPOSE of looking on another’s nakedness are the ones condemned. Your interpretation would mean that Baptist pastors who served alcoholic wine to their flock, during the Lord’s supper service, before the invention of a preservation method for unfermented juices in the late nineteenth century, were guilty of wanting to see the nakedness of their people!

Obviously some people should not drink, they have no self control. Some people should not drive cars, they have no judgment and are a danger to themselves and everyone else, but this does not mean that everyone should abstain from driving cars. The same applies to drink, only more so: if you think it is sin then TO YOU it is sin. One who believes he has freedom should not flaunt it, “have it to thyself”.

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. (it may be a sin for you to drink, if you have little faith, but not for other believers.)

1 Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

In this passage it is very clear that the church in Corinth was using alcoholic wine in their communion service. The Apostle chides them for being drunken but says nothing about what they were drinking, in fact his solution is “have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?” (have it to thyself?). This would have been the perfect opportunity to denounce strong drink. Why then doesn’t he? Again there is no condemnation for what they were drinking. Surely if they were drinking the “wrong type of wine” the Apostle, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit would have said “ye are drinking the wrong kind of wine”? This is very strange indeed!

Your preaching against alcohol is an extreme reaction to a very real problem, that of alcohol abuse. I know it would be easier if every Christian would simply renounce wine, but you and I know they won’t, scripture doesn’t demand that they should. The world can see that Jesus drank, it is very clear from scripture. Then they see Christians ban alcohol when it is plain that it is not alcohol but drunkenness that is banned by scripture, it is no wonder that they call us hypocrites. Of course it is easier to ban alcohol than exercise self control. I think this policy is a tool of the devil to keep people out of the churches, and away from the hearing of the gospel message!

I recently read “the Trial and Burning of John Huss”. It is a very moving book, although I can’t agree with everything he believed (ie. transubstantiation) nevertheless I believe he was a true brother in Christ. One interesting thing is that in his last supper he had a glass of wine with his meal, but the next day as he was being tied to the stake he was offered some wine by one of the guards and he refused. He knew it was not the time to drink. The guard was overcome by conviction and promptly resigned on the spot and left town before the execution was carried out. I think that Mr. Hus was exercising the biblical directions regarding wine given in the bible.

As for me I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about these things, but I have been forced by men like you to search the scriptures and find out what I believe. I originally believed as you do, but was forced to change my views to conform with scripture.

I invite you pastor, to prove me wrong with scripture, I’m not interested in opinions unless it is the Lords opinion.

Philippians 4:5 “Let your MODERATION be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand”.

In Christ,

Dan Knezacek

17 Pratt Rd. Barrie ON L4M 2K9

End of Part 1

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Alpha

Sorry I got it backwards!  Here is Cecil Andrews first installment on Alpha;

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Alpha and the End Times Apostasy

I wrote about some of the errors of Alpha in The Spirit of Prophecy.  Cecil Andrews also does an excellent job of exposing some of Alpha’s errors.

I am not entirely sure of what Mr. Andrews’ view of eschatology is, and so I can’t endorse him on his view of the End Times, but this expose of Alpha is biblically correct;

The church where I was Baptised, Emmanuel Baptist of Barrie, does the Alpha course, and that is one of the reasons we left.  Another big error is their support of Rick Warren, and his purpose driven apostasy.  Another one would be the Evangelism Explosion class we attended where the speaker was raving about “the Shack” as a good book to use to understand God!

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Joining Evil to Fight Evil? (Part 3)

In this, my final installment in my rebuttal of Ray Gano’s article on Christian militancy I want to focus on the context of some of the End Times prophecies of the bible.  You will be able to see that ancient middle-eastern men were able to write about future events that will engulf the whole world.

This is the context of the bible’s End Times prophecies; God, while inspiring Middle Eastern men to write His word, about events focused on the Middle East, is quite capable of taking Scripture beyond the immediate context (Israel and the Middle East). We can see this in Jeremiah 25, where He is speaking of a list of nations, starting in the Middle East, but extending to the ends of the earth;

15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. 16 And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them. 17 Then took I the cup at the LORD’S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me: 18 To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day; 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people; 20 And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod, 21 Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon, 22 And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which are beyond the sea, 23 Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all that are in the utmost corners, 24 And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert, 25 And all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes, 26 And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them. 27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. 28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink. 29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. Jeremiah 25:15-29

Now, Jeremiah was not personally able to go to all the nations of the world in his lifetime, nor even the specific nations in the middle east, but in the passage of time, his message has gone everywhere! The Lord, through the Christian Church, has seen to it that this message is in every nation.

Yes, I know that Egypt has no pharaoh today, but the people mentioned here have descendants who are indeed alive today, so God was speaking of the tribes of that day with their modern descendants in mind. Ashkelon was a Philistine city in that day, but today their descendants mostly live in Gaza, although some actually live in North America. Moving from one place to another will not excuse them from the wrath of God, because His wrath is toward the entire human race, not just those who live in the Middle East!

We have numerous statements here which have no meaning apart from the context of the whole world. For instance, what could “kings of the isles which are beyond the sea” mean but places which are very distant from Israel. Notice that isles is plural. Not one island but all the islands!

Don’t forget that Europe, Asia, and Africa is one huge land-mass. Writing from the context of this land-mass, “the isles which are beyond the sea” must include North and South America, as well as Australia, Japan, Fiji, Malaysia, Iceland, and the Philippines…

But God does not leave it with one statement. Just in case we didn’t get it, He repeats Himself;

“all that are in the utmost corners” – not the utmost corners of Saudi Arabia, but the utmost corners of the world. Compare this to the event (Mat. 24:31)where angels scoop up the elect, and save them from this same destruction “from the uttermost”. Remember utmost, and uttermost, have the same meaning;

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mark 13:27

Note that “uttermost part of heaven” here simply means the corresponding part of the atmosphere. The atmosphere of earth is the first heaven (see Genesis 1:20). These people will witness this destruction first hand, from the arms of angels, and will tell the story to their children as they repopulate the earth during the Millennial reign.

“and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth” All means all. The “face of the earth” describes the entire globe – every where where there is land, and human inhabitants. This is an unlimited statement. In other words, the passage in question will not be fulfilled until there is a war which includes every nation on the earth. This is God dealing with the human race as a whole.

“for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.” Again, He uses the word “all” because He intends us to understand that this prophecy is against the whole human race, not merely the inhabitants of the Middle East. As just before the flood, God’s anger was directed toward the entire human race, so today all the nations of the world are setting themselves up for judgment, and the “Christian” west is at the forefront! The nations that have seen unprecedented gospel preaching, and then turned their backs on it will feel the full fury of the Lord’s wrath!

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? I Peter 4:17

Later on in the same chapter He reiterates that this is a world-wide prophecy;

And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. Jeremiah 25:33

There will be so many dead that there will not be enough left to bury them! This is in contrast to the battle of Gog and Magog, where it will take seven months to bury the dead (Eze. 39:12-14). The dead of Jeremiah 25 will not be buried, but will be left upon the surface of the earth, and eaten by birds and wild animals!

So we see then that the war spoken of in Jeremiah 25 is the same battle spoken of in Revelation 19:21, where the dead are consumed by birds. This is Armageddon, which will rage over the entire world, although the focal point will indeed be Jerusalem. The dead are killed, as they turn upon each other, but those left will be killed by the Lord Himself, and his army of resurrected saints! There will be no unbelievers left alive to go into the Millennial Kingdom. Not one!

As you read through the bible’s End Times prophecies, you must realize that the events spoken of will occur throughout the world. The ten nation confederacy of Revelation 17 is a world-wide confederacy, and not limited to Europe or the Middle East. Should we see a European, and/or a Middle Eastern ten-nation confederacy emerge, do not accept this as fulfilment of the bible’s End Time prophecies. It may actually be a counterfeit of the devil!

The nations of the Psalm 83 war just might number ten, but this is a Church-age war, and it will occur several years before Armageddon. The same goes for the Gog/Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39; there might actually be a ten nation confederacy on one side or the other, but this is still a Church-age war, and quite separate from Armageddon. Those who identify it AS Armageddon will expect the return of Christ at the precise moment that the Antichrist is set to rise!

Your enemy, Satan, is very intelligent. Not only this but he has had some six thousand years to work out a plan, for these days. He is also quite familiar with the Scriptures. He knows what Christians are looking for, and is quite capable of moving in the hearts of world rulers to create a semblance of fulfilled prophecy. This is why I contend that many Christian teachers are actually teaching serious error. Following Amillennialists, Pre-millennialists, Preterists, and even some Dispensationalists, could lead us into disaster. There is no substitute for personal bible study!

Those who think it is the Christian’s duty to pick-up carnal weapons and create the kingdom of God on earth will one day soon crown the Antichrist as its ruler!

So Gano is correct to emphasize “context” but the context is found within the passage itself, as well as throughout Scripture. Scripture must interpret Scripture. God is sovereign, and quite capable of lifting the context above the context of the writer’s own circumstances. We must accept the plain sense meaning of the words of Scripture, and not read into it our pre-conceived ideas, as so many do today. All Scripture is a unit, and speaks with a supernatural unity.

Do you know some unbelievers? While I can’t give a day, nor an hour, when these things will be fulfilled, I am convinced we are within a lifetime of it. When the End Times prophecies come to pass, our unbelieving family members and friends will be lost for all eternity. Now is the time to share the gospel with them. Don’t wait!

(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) II Corinthians 6:2

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Today’s Liberals aren’t really liberals!

Hey folks, this discussion of what a liberal really is, is right on!  Actually the biblical definition of a liberal is a person who is generous with his, or her, own property.  Still, Bill Whittle’s rant really makes some very good points.  Those who self-identify as liberals today, are nothing of the sort.

Take a moment to watch;

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