Having recently been exposed to Gary DeMar’s book Ten Popular Prophecy Myths Exposed, and having a reader bombard me with, really an attack on the Pre-Tribulation Rapture view, I thought it would be good to take a look at an ancient Pre-Trib rapture sermon.
Both DeMar, and my correspondent, who wishes to remain anonymous, bash the pre-trib rapture view as being a new innovation. Even if it was new, that in itself would not mean it was incorrect. The bible itself says;
And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Daniel 12:9
So if the angel told Daniel that his book would be sealed until the time of the end, why would we expect Augustine, or Martin Luther, or John Calvin, to have a complete understanding of that book when they were not living in the time of the end. I am aware that they were living in the Church-age, which is generally called the “End Times” but that does not mean that every Christian throughout this age will have a complete understanding until the actual time of the end approaches. Even then, as deception rules, most still won’t get it!
The doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation rapture of the Church has come under vicious attack in recent years. It is almost as if this view is as much hated as the King James Bible! The truth is that Pseudo-Ephraem did not originate this teaching, it can be found as far back as the writings of Moses, Asaph, Isaiah, and Zephaniah. Nevertheless Pseudo-Ephraem’s sermon is an ancient pre-trib rapture statement, and proof that some Christians did believe this doctrine in the early years of Christianity.
Satan hates the Pre-Trib rapture, and yet he believes it himself. This is why he has persecuted its adherents, on the one hand, while also preparing alternative explanations for his followers, to prepare them for deception at its occurrence, on the other! Those “Christians” who are fighting the Pre-Trib Rapture position so vehemently will one day find that their attacks were against Christ Himself!
Pseudo-Ephraem gave his sermon, c. 374-627, and it was popular enough to be translated into at least three major languages, including Latin and Syriac.
Why would he use a name like “Pseudo”? Does this mean that he was dishonest? This practice has been attacked by many of his detractors, but this is an ancient way of crediting a teaching to its original author. Today we would use footnotes and quotation marks to do the same thing, but that practice had not been developed at the time this sermon was written.
By using the name “Pseudo-Ephraem” he was giving credit to Ephraem of Nisibis as being the original author. He was speaking “in Ephraem’s name”, as it were.
Rather than listen to the enemies of Christ rant about it, why not take a few moments to read the sermon? I found the complete sermon on bibleprophesy.org a website by Jason Hommel. I have left some of Jason’s comments, and links, at the end as they are very insightful;
A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem
On the Last Times, the Anti-Christ, and the End of the World
Dearly beloved brothers, believe the Holy Spirit who speaks in us. We have already told you that the end of the world is near, the consummation remains. Has not faith withered away among mankind? How many foolish things are seen among youths, how many crimes among prelates, how many lies among priests, how many perjuries among deacons! There are evil deeds among the ministers, adulteries in the aged, wantonness in the youths–in mature women false faces, in virgins dangerous traces! In the midst of all this there are the wars with the Persians, and we see struggles with diverse nations threatening and “kingdom rising against kingdom” (Matt. 24:7). When the Roman empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman empire.
In those days two brothers will come to the Roman empire who will rule with one mind; but because one will surpass the other, there will be a schism between them. And so the Adversary will be loosed and will stir up hatred between the Persian and Roman empires. In those days many will rise up against Rome; the Jewish people will be her adversaries. There will be stirrings of nations and evil reports, pestilences, famines, and earth quakes in various places. All nations will receive captives; there will be wars and rumors of wars. From the rising to the setting of the sun the sword will devour much. The times will be so dangerous that in fear and trembling they will not permit thought of better things, because many will be the oppressions and desolations of regions that are to come.
We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!
When therefore the end of the world comes, there arise diverse wars, commotions on all sides, horrible earthquakes, perturbations of nations, tempests throughout the lands, plagues, famine, drought throughout the thoroughfares, great danger throughout the sea and dry land, constant persecutions, slaughters and massacres everywhere, fear in the homes, panic in the cities, quaking in the thoroughfares, suspicions in the male, anxiety in the streets. In the desert people become senseless, spirits melt in the cities. A friend will not be grieved over a friend, neither a brother for a brother, nor parents for their children, nor a faithful servant for his master, but one inevitability shall overwhelm them all; neither is anyone able to be recovered in that time, who has not been made completely aware of the coming danger, but all people, who have been constricted by fear, are consumed because of the overhanging evils.
Whenever therefore the earth is agitated by the nations, people will hide themselves from the wars in the mountains and rocks, by caves and caverns of the earth, by graves and memorials of the dead, and there, as they waste away gradually by fear, they draw breath, because there is not any place at all to flee, but there will be concession and intolerable pressure. And those who are in the east will flee to the west, and moreover, those who are in the west shall flee to the east, and there is not a safer place anywhere, because the world shall be overwhelmed by worthless nations, whose aspect appears to be of wild animals more than that of men. Because those very much horrible nations, most profane and most defiled, who do not spare lives, and shall destroy the living from the dead, shall consume the dead, they eat dead flesh, they drink the blood of beasts, they pollute the world, contaminate all things, and the one who is able to resist them is not there. In those days people shall not be buried, neither Christian, nor heretic, neither Jew, nor pagan, because of fear and dread there is not one who buries them; because all people, while they are fleeing, ignore them.
Whenever the days of the times of those nations have been fulfilled, after they have destroyed the earth, it shall rest; and now the kingdom of the Romans is removed from everyday life, and the empire of the Christians is handed down by God and Peter; and then the consummation comes, when the kingdom of the Romans begins to be fulfilled, and all dominions and powers have been fulfilled. Then that worthless and abominable dragon shall appear, he, whom Moses named in Deuteronomy, saying:-Dan is a young lion, reclining and leaping from Basan. Because he reclines in order that he may seize and destroy and slay. Indeed (he is) a young whelp of a lion not as the lion of the tribe of Judah, but roaring because of his wrath, that he may devour. “And he leaps out from Basan.” “Basan” certainly is interpreted “confusion.” He shall rise up from the confusion of his iniquity. The one who gathers together to himself a partridge the children of confusion, also shall call them, whom he has not brought forth, just as Jeremiah the prophet says. Also in the last day they shall relinquish him just as confused.
When therefore the end of the world comes, that abominable, lying and murderous one is born from the tribe of Dan. He is conceived from the seed of a man and from an unclean or most vile virgin, mixed with an evil or worthless spirit. But that abominable corrupter, more of spirits than of bodies, while a youth, the crafty dragon appears under the appearance of righteousness, before he takes the kingdom. Because he will be craftily gentle to all people, not receiving gifts, not placed before another person, loving to all people, quiet to everyone, not desiring gifts, appearing friendly among close friends, so that men may bless him, saying;-he is a just man, not knowing that a wolf lies concealed under the appearance of a lamb, and that a greedy man is inside under the skin of a sheep.
But when the time of the abomination of his desolation begins to approach, having been made legal, he takes the empire, and, just as it is said in the Psalm:-They have been made for the undertaking for the sons of Loth, the Moabites and the Ammanites shall meet him first as their king. Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem; who, after coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations, since he is carnal and filthy and mixed with worthless spirit and flesh. Then that eloquence shall be fulfilled of Daniel the prophet:-And he shall not know the God of their fathers, and he shall not know the desires of women. Because the very wicked serpent shall direct every worship to himself. Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. Then the Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again the practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem, and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months, just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days.
In these three years and a half the heaven shall suspend its dew; because there will be no rain upon the earth, and the clouds shall cease to pass through the air, and the stars shall be seen with difficulty in the sky because of the excessive dryness, which happens in the time of the very fierce dragon. Because all great rivers and very powerful fountains that overflow with themselves shall be dried up, torrents shall dry up their water-courses because of the intolerable age, and there will be a great tribulation, as there has not been, since people began to be upon the earth, and there will be famine and an insufferable thirst. And children shall waste away in the bosom of their mothers, and wives upon the knees of their husbands, by not having victuals to eat. Because there will be in those days lack of bread and water, and no one is able to sell or to buy of the grain of the fall harvest, unless he is one who has the serpentine sign on the forehead or on the hand. Then gold and silver and precious clothing or precious stones shall lie along the streets, and also even every type of pearls along the thoroughfares and streets of the cities, but there is not one who may extend the hand and take or desire them, but they consider all things as good as nothing because of the extreme lack and famine of bread, because the earth is not protected by the rains of heaven, and there will be neither dew nor moisture of the air upon the earth. But those who wander through the deserts, fleeing from the face of the serpent, bend their knees to God, just as lambs to the adders of their mothers, being sustained by the salvation of the Lord, and while wandering in states of desertion, they eat herbs.
Then, when this inevitability has overwhelmed all people, just and unjust, the just, so that they may be found good by their Lord; and indeed the unjust, so that they may be damned forever with their author the Devil, and, as God beholds the human race in danger and being tossed about by the breath of the horrible dragon, he sends to them consolatory proclamation by his attendants, the prophets Enoch and Elijah, who, while not yet tasting death, are the servants for the heralding of the second coming of Christ, and in order to accuse the enemy. And when those just ones have appeared, they confuse indeed the antagonistic serpent with his cleverness and they call back the faithful witnesses to God, in order to (free them) from his seduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know, and on the day which the enemy of son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of the wood of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints, with those who bear the sign of the holy cross upon their shoulders, as the angelic trumpet precedes him, which shall sound and declare: Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come! Then Christ shall come and the enemy shall be thrown into confusion, and the Lord shall destroy him by the spirit of his mouth. And he shall be bound and shall be plunged into the abyss of everlasting fire alive with his father Satan; and all people, who do his wishes, shall perish with him forever; but the righteous ones shall inherit everlasting life with the Lord forever and ever.
Of course, I (Jason Hommel ) have an opinion as well:
Section 2 looks as if it supports the pretribulation rapture model where the rapture must occur before the revealing or advent of the antichrist.
Section 10 looks somewhat like a post trib rapture, with the trumpet and the resurrection. However, Jesus is ALSO returning WITH his saints, as in the pre trib model.
Here is my rebuttal to the article above which says this is not a pretribulation document:
If you notice at that url, the section that is NOT highlighted in Section 2 reads as follows:
“Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world?”
Notice where the preparation lies, “for the meeting of the Lord Christ”, not preparations for 7 years or 3.5 years of hard times and famine.
In fact, the point the writer was making was that the famines had already come… so that he was thinking that the only thing next, yes, is the revealing of the wicked one, because that was the main event not yet seen in his day… and which, as 2 Thess 2 points out, cannot take place until the removal & rapture of that which restrains him, which is the author’s proof that the rapture is near, (neigh) and the very last time!
It seems to me that a large number of post tribbers have their focus on surviving the tribulation, which means that they are focused on survival supplies, and posession of the worldly goods and anxieties of the ages, forgetting that to die is gain. This, of course, is in direct contrast to the advice and exhortations given in this Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem.
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Hi brother Dan. Notwithstanding the fact that the Pseudo-Ephraem document is believed to be a pseudepigraphal forgery (hence “Pseudo-Ephraem”) by many, it should be noted that the Latin and Syriac versions do differ. You quoted the Latin version. In the Syriac version, however, is the revealing statement that “Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity [of tribulation]: ‘Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!'” If the Syriac version teaches that Christians escape tribulation through death and not through rapture, then does it not stand to reason that this is also the intent of the Latin version as well? Certainly.
Be that as it may, according to this document Pseudo-Ephraem understood the tribulation to refer to 3.5 years only, not a 7-year tribulation as traditional dispensationalism today teaches. Moreover, Pseudo-Ephraem says that “Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom.” Given the fact that he obviously believed many of the signs predicted by Christ were already then fulfilled, and given the fact that you believe in a 7-year tribulation, you must therefore believe that Pseudo-Ephraem understood he was already in Daniel’s 70th week. Additionally, knowing that he believed he would see the Antichrist before the Lord’s return obviously puts Pseudo-Ephraem well outside the pre-trib school of thought. At best, he was pre-wrath. In all likelihood, however, he would have been post-trib like the rest of the Church was during his time and remained so until the the mid 19th century with the introduction of pre-tribism.
Have you ever wondered why it is that there are absolutely no real pre-trib teachings found anywhere prior to the mid 19th century? I did, and the answer finally became quite evident. It’s because there are none.
Well, you avoided the obvious; The Latin version of Pseudo-Ephraim’s sermon is certainly a pre-19th century Pre-Trib statement.
You dismissed it out of hand, as if the use of the name “Pseudo-Ephraim” renders it null and void! As I explained above, the use of “Pseudo” is an ancient way of giving credit to an ancient author. They did not have ISBN numbers, nor publishers, nor printing houses, to reference. I have encountered this practise in other ancient documents. Haven’t you?
You Said; “Have you ever wondered why it is that there are absolutely no real pre-trib teachings found anywhere prior to the mid 19th century? I did, and the answer finally became quite evident. It’s because there are none.”
Again, you are avoiding the obvious answer; There are “none”, (with the exception of Pseudo-Ephraim’s sermon) because all the ancient Pre-Trib writings were burned at the stake, along with their authors. Most of the original Latin vulgate, of the Waldenses, also suffered the same fate.
The Catholic Church went to great lengths to stiffle any doctrines that were contrary to their official teachings. You mean that you think that of all the fifty million or so, martyred for their faith during the middle ages, that none of them were pre-trib? This is what bothers me about your statements, you sound like a closet Catholic. The arguments you use are virtually identical to those of the Preterists and Amillennialists, both common among the Catholics.
Of course a correct reading of the bible also leads one to the belief in a Pre-Tribulation rapture. But stay behind if you want, I wouldn’t want to drag you kicking and screaming into Heaven. Not that I could of course, but I’m pretty sure the Holy Spirit wouldn’t want to do that either!
If you are going to write back please use your first name. I am uncomfortable having a discussion with someone who is afraid of having me know their first name.
Hi brother, the only thing that is obvious to me is that Pseudo-Ephraem wasn’t making a pre-trib statement. I find it very surprising that someone who wrote about being present to see Antichrist, who believed they would suffer persecution under Antichrist and who saw themselves well within Daniel’s 70th week could be called “pre-trib”. Please forgive me — I don’t want to come across as rash and I apologize if it sounds that way — but don’t you think that sounds awfully desperate?
“Pseudo” was attached by scholars to manuscripts that were possibly, but not provably, written by the well-known Ephraim the Syrian who lived from 306-373 AD. The Syriac text of Pseudo-Ephraem describes the Islamic invasion so this text cannot be earlier than about 700 AD.
How can anyone say that ancient pre-trib writings were “burned” by Catholics when there isn’t a shred of evidence that any pre-trib writings ever existed? Given the fact that at the time of the Reformation it was universally believed by all Protestants that the Roman Catholic church was the Harlot of Revelation 17 and that the Pope was the Antichrist, the suggestion that Catholics destroyed pre-trib writings is an argumentum ad ignorantiam. How could Catholics have been destroying pre-trib writings when everyone they were killing saw themselves suffering at the hand of the Antichrist in the tribulation?
I would argue that “fifty million or so” is somewhat inflated. Regardless, the statement that “none of them were pre-trib” is yet again an argumentum ad ignorantiam. There is not one iota of evidence that any Protestant believers were pre-trib. The argument is itself entirely dependent upon an assumed premiss, not upon facts. Moreover, consider the following. There are numerous writings that survived the reach of the Catholic church that describe Roman Catholicism as the Whore of Babylon and the Pope as the Antichrist. Since so many of these managed to survived, does it not then stand to reason that pre-trib writings would have also survived, too, especially if they would have demonized the Catholic church even less than the numerous writings that survived? The fact of the matter is that absolutely no pre-trib writing has ever been found, because every indication suggests that none ever existed.
I’m a Premillennial Evangelical who agrees with some aspects of Historicism. I am not a Preterist nor Amillennialist nor Catholic. My personal motto is this: Instead of interpreting Scripture to conform to our understanding, we must allow our understanding to conform to Scripture. When it comes to pre-tribism, however, one cannot find this teaching anywhere in the whole of Scripture without first assuming a pre-trib rapture to begin with. This is not how we should study Scripture. It must be done exegetically (taking meaning out of the text) and not eisegetically (adding meaning to it). Pre-tribism does the latter incessantly and fails when examined hermeneutically (interpreting Scripture with Scripture), in my humble opinion.
Can you find two or three verses of Scripture that prove a pre-trib rapture without first requiring that a pre-trib rapture be assumed to begin with? I really look forward to reading those verses closely. 😉
Call me Mitchell. Nice to meet you brother Dan. And yes, we’re brothers in the Lord, even if we see some things differently. It makes for good conversation. May the Spirit lead us to His Truth! God bless …
[Saw the following on the net. Enjoy.]
CHUCK MISSLER – COPYIST !
Many these days are abandoning the pretribulation rapture view, and the June, 1995 article by Chuck Missler (”Byzantine Text Discovery: Ephraem the Syrian”) reveals why there is such a mutiny! First of all, the authoritative scholar that Missler cited, Dr. Paul Alexander, referred only to “Pseudo-Ephraem” and not to Ephraem the Syrian. (If an unsigned ancient manuscript resembles the real Ephraem but there is a question of authorship, they assign it to “Pseudo-Ephraem” – the word “pseudo” meaning “possibly.” For some groundless reason, Grant Jeffrey, the one who reportedly found the “discovery,” changed Dr. Alexander’s terminology! For more info on Jeffrey, Google “Wily Jeffrey.”) And Missler’s scholarship is also questionable. According to the Los Angeles Times (July 30, 1992), about one-fourth of Missler’s 1992 book “The Magog Factor” (which he co-authored with Hal Lindsey) was a daring plagiarism of Dr. Edwin Yamauchi’s 1982 book “Foes from the Northern Frontier”! Four months later Yamauchi’s publisher revealed that both Lindsey and Missler had promised to stop all publishing of their book. But in 1995 they were found publishing “The Magog Invasion” (which was either a revision or a replacement of “The Magog Factor”) – which had a substantial amount of the same plagiarism! (Dave MacPherson’s 1998 book “The Three R’s” has complete documentation on this and other pretrib scandals.) After listing “1820″ as the reported date of the birth of pretrib (he should have said “1830″), Missler sees a pretrib rapture in that Medieval writer’s phrase “taken to the Lord” and, since he evidently favors rewriting others instead of researching, is unaware that Dr. Alexander explained that this phrase really means “participate at least in some measure in beatitude” – which has reference only to doing acts of virtue on earth and not being raptured away from earth! Alexander added that the same ancient writer held to only one final second coming (and not to any prior coming) which would follow the time of Antichrist! (Readers can Google “Deceiving and Being Deceived” by MacPherson to see how groundless the Pseudo-Ephraem claim is and to learn how desperate pretribs are to find any pre-1830 evidence for their escapist view. Dr. Robert Gundry of Westmont College has also demolished the Pseudo-Ephraem claim in his 1997 book “First the Antichrist.”) Since Missler also leans on Thomas Ice, readers can evaluate Ice’s qualifications by Googling “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Thomas Ice (Hired Gun),” and “Pretrib Rapture Diehards” (the latter part). For further light on the 183-year-old, fringe-British-invented pretribulation theory, Google or Yahoo “Pretrib Rapture Stealth.” Finally – why would anyone who has the brains of a rocket scientist want to be taken up with the concept of an any-moment pretrib rapture? The answer may well be that there’s more money in elevating a rapture than launching a rocket!
Thanks for the comment.
My pre-Trib view is not based on the Pseudo-Ephraem account, although I do think it is genuine, in spite of what you have said.
The Pre-Trib Rapture is found in the writings of men like Moses, Isaiah, David, and Zephaniah, as well as in the words of Jesus Christ Himself, Paul, and John. This is all the evidence I need.
If you want to stay behind, you are welcome to do so. As for me, I want to be with the Lord.
As for a sudden, no-warnings, rapture event; I do not believe this is what the Scriptures teach. Had you read any of my articles you would have known this.
Search through my site for “rapture” or “rapture timing”, and you will see that I believe there are at least two major wars BEFORE the pre-Trib rapture; The Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39, and the Psalm 83 war (in reverse order). You will see that I have made a strong biblical case for my views, and do not depend on Pseudo-Ephraem at all. I do think it is interesting that he did teach a pre-Trib rapture view, but I don’t think it was necessarily revealed until much more recently.
As for Amillennialism, Preterism, and Post-Millennialism, I believe these philosophies did NOT originate with the Lord but either with men or with devils! Regardless of their origin, Satan is certainly making hay with these false philosophies!
AS for Chuck Missler, and Grant Jeffrey, I am not in complete agreement with these men, nor with men like Tom Ice, Bill Salus, or David Jeremiah, although I think they are all closer to the truth than Augustine, Calvin, and Luther. We are ALL human, and we all make mistakes. We need to learn from others, and our own mistakes, and move on, not retreat back to an unbiblical, untenable position like that of Augustine!
Augustine’s philosophy will suck many professing Christians into the camp of the Antichrist! Of this I am certain!
FYI here is a list I heard Jack Van Impe give for those who taught a pre-trib prior to Darby (excluding Ephram since this is the subject and already known)
Reverend Dolcino – 1315
Hugh Latimer – 1555
Joseph Mede – 1620
Pierre Jurieu – 1697
Morgan Edwards – 1742
John Gill – 1748
James Macknight – 1763
J.N. Darby – 1830
From my experiences in the past I noticed it’s only the post-tribbers that seem to foam at the mouth over a pre-trib doctrine (yet it’s never the other way around), almost as if they believe pre-tribbers aren’t saved, as if they believe in a different Spirit. I found it odd actually. There are topics the Christian community debate over, but nothing get’s the angry attention like the timing of the rapture. Post tribbers are usually of the Catholic sort, or Catholic spin offs (protestant) as well.
When I’ve debated PTs, their argument usually only consists of two things. 1. Matthew 24, or 2. predicting the future/outcome of the tribulation specifically with believers, such as “being Spiritually unprepared, or “they’ll fall for the anti-christ” (believers will do this?). Weak sauce indeed.
Thank you for that excellent information!
Post-millennialists used to put Chilialists ((the ancient name for pre-Millennialists) to death actually, so it is no surprise that they are still opposed to it.
I have even heard people as notable as Chris Rosebrough, of Pirate Christian radio, make statements against pre-millennialism. Well, he was implying that the White Throne Judgment will happen when Jesus returns, and thus that is the end of this world.
II Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Considering that His kingdom will last forever, I can’t see this meaning that this particular judgment will happen at the beginning of His reign. That would contradict John 20:4 & 5
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.”
Obviously there is some judgment going on at the end of the Tribulation, but the Great White Throne Judgment will be after the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
As Paul said, “now we see through a glass darkly”, so I don’t believe we know everything about the end times, but I also think the Lord has been leading Christian leaders to a more complete understanding as the end approaches. At the same time opposition to the truth will increase.
Here is another good article;
Thanks for your comments,