The snake oil salesmen are at it again, though in fact, the error they are perpetrating is very old.
I am referring, of course, to the hype about the “blood moons”, and the pile of books, and current internet articles, that are flogging this error. This stems from a human desire for God to hurry-up, and to get it over with.
Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. Amos 5:18
We naturally desire to be in the millennial reign, to live in a perfect world, but God will do it in his own time. Don’t rush Him!
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: 11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Joel 2:10-11
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Joel 2:31
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD IS NEAR in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. Joel 3:1:14-15
“The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE that great and notable day of the Lord come:” Acts 2:20
An old Jewish error concerning these passages can be traced to the passage in the Talmud that equates a lunar eclipse to a “blood moon”. When Christians pick up this error there is a problem, Christian doctrine does not come from the Talmud;
“When the moon is in eclipse, it is a bad omen for Israel. If its face is as red as blood, (it is a sign that) the sword is coming to the world.” http://www.pray4zion.org/TheComingBloodMoons.html
A Blood Moon over the Temple wall
The Talmud is a New Age reinterpretation of the Old Testament, and is as dangerous as any pagan religion. Christians have no business following this abomination. There is a current push to reinterpret the New Testament, in the same New Age way, that is equally as dangerous, but that is not my subject for today.
Suffice it to say that this reinterpretation can be found in all the major denominations, and in many independent churches today.
Modern translations such as The Message, and the New Century version, follow in the New Age tradition of the Talmud. This trend has been going on for some time, however, and even older translations such as the NASB, the NIV, and the NKJV, have been infected, to some extent.
The idea that a lunar eclipse could be in view here is refuted by the immediate context of the passage. In every passage about this phenomenon, a dimming of the sun is connected to the “blood moon”. You can’t get away from this connection, and yet every one of these false teachers focuses on the “blood moon” as if it was an eclipse. It isn’t!
Look at this passage again, and ask yourself “is it possible that this could refer to a lunar eclipse?”;
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Joel 2:31
Eclipses happen all the time, and while it may be that Israel will not experience an eclipse for another hundred years, they have experienced many over the last three millennia, and the rest of the world experiences them regularly. They are as predictable as the clock!
By its very context this cannot be a sign from the Lord. A sign is not something that occurs regularly as clockwork. By its very definition, a sign is something out of the ordinary.
An event that occurs on the Canadian and American prairies, every fall, is actually closer to what the bible intended, than the natural event of an eclipse… a harvest moon. The dust kicked up into the atmosphere by thousands of combines, processing millions of bushels of grain causes the moon to appear red.
“Wildfires in North America and dust storms in Africa sometimes fill our air with aerosols. A low hanging harvest moon can give an array of colors that is not usually seen.” http://www.moonconnection.com/harvest_moon.phtml
A Harvest Moon, looking like blood
This phenomenon actually gives us a clue to what the bible is referring to; It is not the aerosols from a major harvest, nor even from a major forest fire, but aerosols, dust, spewing into the atmosphere from a major battle, with perhaps even nuclear devices being set-off.
Jesus told us about it in Matthew;
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matthew 24:7
These wars will produce the blood moon phenomenon, and they will occur during the closing days of the Church age.
Notice also that this phenomenon shall occur numerous times in the End Times, not once.
“Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:” Matthew 24:29
Again Jesus said that it will occur AFTER the Tribulation, but Joel already told us that it will occur BEFORE the Tribulation, the Day of the Lord. Is this a contradiction? No.
Go and read through the context of the passages in Joel above. You will see that this phenomenon will occur at least three times. It will occur when the day of the Lord is near, before the day of the Lord, and during the day of the Lord. It is not something that will only be seen from Israel, but all over the world.
So what is going on with the “blood moon” hype? Is it just that guys like John Hagee want to flog books, and make lots of money? No doubt they do, but this is more about deceiving the people of God.
When the Psalm 83 war occurs, this phenomenon will occur, and people will interpret it as being post-Tribulation. Then later, when the Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39 occurs, it will occur again, and people will interpret it as fulfilment of Matthew 24:29, a sign that the Tribulation is over! They may even look back to the Psalm 83 war and reinterpret that event as having been “before the Tribulation”. Even so, they will still get it wrong!
If you can’t count to three you will get it wrong!
The sun being darkened, and the moon turning to blood, will occur three times at minimum, and each time it will be worse than before. When the Psalm 83 war occurs, it will be viewed all around the world. When the Gog and Magog war occurs you can bet that this phenomenon will be seen in Rio de Janeiro, Tokyo, Washington, London, and Jerusalem.
The Gog and Magog war will be so bad, that people will be saying “it can’t get any worse than this, therefore it must be the Tribulation”, but it can… and will. So when they form a world government in the aftermath of that war, and they are saying “peace and safety”, that will be the time that the Day of the Lord is about to begin!
So what can be said about people like John Hagee, who are pushing this crap? They are deluded at best! Don’t waste your money, or time, on his book. (Sorry to those who are offended at my use of the term “crap” to describe Hagee’s book. That is what it is worth. Perhaps I should have used the biblical term; “dung”.) I don’t have to read it to know that his whole mindset is in error, as is the mindset of all those who are jumping on the “blood moon” bandwagon.
If you look at the “prophecy community” and the things they have been saying for decades, you should notice that there is a tendency to explain away the events of prophecy. There is a tendency to provide a naturalistic answer to these events.
When the bible talks about the Euphrates river drying up (Revelation 16:12), I have heard Grant Jeffrey say that this could be caused by the dams on that river shutting off the water flow all at once. (The context of the passage is a drought) When the bible speaks of creatures from the abyss, with a sting in their tail (Revelation 9:10), some prophecy teachers equate this to be helicopters. (The context is supernatural creatures, probably fallen angels)
Is there a difference with the blood moon hype? I don’t think so.
Each of these events will have a literal fulfilment. The fulfilment of each event will be something that is out of the control of humanity, and also something that is out of the ordinary. Eclipses are rather ordinary.
So, the fact that there will be four eclipses in Israel during 2014-2015 has nothing to do with biblical prophecy. Except that someone just might take advantage of these events to stage a fulfilment of prophecy.
So many seem to think that Satan is utterly predictable, and of no real danger, but I think he is very intelligent, and is quite able to move in the hearts of world leaders, to approximate the fulfilment of prophecy before its time. Can he do this? Absolutely! Will he do this? Absolutely, and more! This is why we need to be vigilant! “Because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8
Misinterpretation of signs, and seeing signs when there is none, can be as dangerous as missing the signs altogether.
Dan Knezacek
housetops 
Dan, I completely agree with your assertions that Biblical blood moons are not caused by solar eclipses. However, and we’ve been here before, how is it that you say that Joel is describing a premillennial event yet he clearly describes a functioning temple and priesthood recognized by Yahweh and the land of Israel is “Like the Garden of Eden”? These conditions will not and indeed cannot occur until the Millennial Kingdom? And that’s just for starters.
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
It is not I, who says it is a premillennial event, it is the Lord who says it… and he spells it out. The only way it could not be a premillennial event is if the word “before” does not mean “before”. If we can’t expect Scripture to mean what it says in plain language, then we might as well give up on it.
The word “like” in Scripture is a comparative word. It is comparing something to something else. In this case the “like the garden of eden” is in comparison to what it is afterward. There are places on earth today that could be said to be like the garden of eden, such as some of the Carribean islands, or some of the South Pacific Islands.
I think that what is in view here is the nation of Israel between the Psalm 83 war and the Gog and Magog war, or it could be Israel after recovering from the Gog and Magog war, before Armageddon itself. In each case there will be several years time for recovery.
The phrase “like the garden of eden” in context here does not have to be literal, because of the use of the word “like”. It is only comparative.
Thanks for writing,
Dan
So Dan, U completely rule out this fourth series of Blood Moons, even tho the first three had direct specific implications for the Jews?
The first one in 1493, the Spanish Inquisition, the second, reclamation of the Land, the third, the reclamation of Jerusalem, and the fourth,
the reclamation of the Temple??. AND EVERY ONE ON A JEWISH HIGH HOLY DAY!
Whether or not this last one occurs, it’s very interesting how this blood moon scenario dovetails with Jonathan Cahn’s warning re Isaiah 9:10, Sept 11, 2001, the first 7 yr cycle that ended with the greatest stock market crash in our history and on a Jewish
Holy Day to boot. And now the ending of the second 7 yr cycle on Sept 28, 2015,
also a Jewish high Holy Day.
In conclusion, I don’t hear any of these guys predicting The Lord’s Return at that
time,… Only some type of cataclysmic event(s).
Cahn believes it may be related to the economy just as the first one was: A warning that this one will be far worse for our country if we don’t repent.
I dont believe any of the events you mentioned are specific fulfilments of the “Blood Moon” prophecies. Absolutely not. If the sun is not dimmed, and the stars are still visible, then it cannot be fulfilment of these prophecies.
Rather, what is going on is that Satan is an opportunist. He has a long view of history, and is working to manipulate the interpretation of Scripture to his own ends.
So what I am saying is that the majority of Scripture interpretations are Satanic in origin, even though well meaning Christians hold them.
The current Blood Moon hype fails to take into account the whole biblical statement, and misinterprets one phrase. I have no doubt that Satan will do something to try to make it look like fulfilment of prophecy, but it isn’t.
Many of my Born Again Believer friends seem to fall into your camp and do not believe
in the 1948 rebirth of Israel nor the significance of the 1967 regeneration of Jerusalem.
Romans chapter 11 tells us differently and specifically shows Paul delineating a distinct
difference between gentile believers and Jewish believers. God has not walked away
from His Covenant with the Jewish people and I believe we shall very soon clearly see since Apr 15th is fast approaching and Sept 28th, 2015 ‘Feast of Tabernacles’ will also soon be here:
http://www.triumphpro.com/blood-red-lunar-eclipses-and-solar-eclipses.htm
The first 3 blood moon series all point to Israel and each one gets more local.
That would probably mean the fourth one hints at the construction of the Third Temple
so we may soon find out.
Of course, even if it does come to fruition, from your statement I suppose you will even
then believe this will be Satan’s doing as well: Nothing to do with God’s Plan.
And ‘the mark of the beast’ will be a self fulfilled prophecy and have nothing to do with
the fulfillment of the prophecies in Revelation?
You didn’t have anything the say about the 9/28/2015 Feast of Tabernacles date dovetailing with Jonathan Cahn’s, ‘Harbinger’ warning. Are you saying it was Satan who implemented the nation’s largest stock market crash on a Jewish Holy Day as well, and God had nothing to do with that?
9/11 was a specific warning from God for our nation to repent in accordance with Isaiah 9/10.
Of course our politicians used that verse exactly opposite from what it means in the context.
That cannot be denied if u study it carefully. God has always used our economy (personal and corporate) to get our attention and we are about to experience something far worse than 9/11 unless we do repent.
9/28/2015 will also be the closure of the second Shmita since 9/11 and is also the second sabbatical year since 9/11.
Dave,
I didn’t say the 1948 rebirth of Israel, nor the 1967 recapture of Jerusalem, is not prophetically significant. These are indeed prophetically significant events. I do not, however, believe that there is any siginificance to Eclipses, either lunar or solar. These events happen all the time, like clockwork, so by definition they are not signs.
A careful study of the events of Scripture, which mention the “moon like blood” are always simultaneous with a dimmed sun, and the stars not shining. If you can still see the stars on the night of the “blood moon” it is not a fulfilment of a “blood moon” prophecy.
Satan has the ability to move armies, and no doubt he could do that shortly after an Eclipse, but this does not mean the Eclipse is a sign. Satan would like you to believe an eclipse is a sign.
As for Johnathan Cahn, I tend to agree with Brannon Howse, that Cahn is off base, if not actually dangerous.
Whatever Satan does, God certainly approves of, or at least allows it. God does indeed use Satan’s activities for His own purposes, but I would be careful with how I say He does this. God could quite easily be trapping those who are caught in their own conceits.
In fact I believe this is what is happening with the “Blood Moon” books. The stars are still visible, and as long as they are, an eclipse is not fulfilment of the passages in question, even if it falls on a biblical feast day. These authors are not doing due dilligence, and are leading others astray.
Should America repent? Of course they should, and so should Canada, and Israel. 9/11 was indeed a wake-up call, but it seems that the west has just rolled over and has gone back to sleep.
Replacement Theology
Dan:
It seems we have more in common than I thought.
I am a little perplexed though by your comment on Brannon Howse rejecting Cahn’s thesis.
This article appears to refute this to a degree:
Brannon Howse interviews Jonathan Cahn on “Harbinger”
Thank you, Brannon Howse, for having Jonathan Cahn on your radio program and giving him a chance to explain his “Harbinger” revelation. I hope this is sufficient to answer the misunderstandings expressed by Jimmy DeYoung about the book on a previous show.
I recognize that one doesn’t necessarily have to read a book or see a movie to understand enough about it to criticize it fairly, but the more I hear about people’s reactions to Jonathan Cahn’s study the more I have to appreciate that it’s a difficult message to grasp unless you spend some time thinking about it. Not that you have to have read the book but you do have to understand what he’s actually saying, and apparently that’s not easy to get UNLESS you either read the book or hear his talks.
The ways people have managed to misunderstand the message are a bit boggling. Cahn himself was boggled at the thought that anyone would accuse him of “replacement theology” but I guess it is possible to get that out of it if you don’t spend enough time really thinking it through.
(I don’t consider myself to be into replacement theology either, but I may be more in that direction than Jonathan Cahn is — I certainly don’t think physical Israel has been replaced by the Church, but I do think that the Church IS “Israel” in the spiritual sense, so that all who are saved and born again in Christ ARE spiritual Israel, and I believe scripture says that Abraham himself looked to a spiritual “land” — although God certainly DID give physical Israel to his descendants. So there is no doubt yet a role left for physical Israel to bring glory to God as this wrecked and groaning planet reels to its soon-coming end — but enough, I’ve posted on this recently already.)
It also seemed to me to be a handicap for Brannon Howse that he hadn’t been able to read the book or find out much more about the “Harbinger” before doing the interview, as he seemed not to really “get it” for most of the interview, though maybe it was getting through to him more by the end. Cahn seems to be having to work extremely hard just to get the basics across. This message is more important than that, and I hope Brannon Howse will eventually find some time to give it some real thought.
I get that if you really believe God has given up on America you may not see the point of putting much effort into trying to understand a message which is really a call to repentance, but it seems to me that God’s giving us these signs or omens or harbingers MIGHT suggest that He’s still giving us time to repent despite it all.
Maybe not, maybe they are just supposed to stand as mute testimony against America just as the same signs were against ancient Israel, so that we really are doomed.
But again, God’s even allowing this book to come out DOES suggest that we may still have some time IF the churches were to wake up and seek God in earnest. I personally think God’s people and especially pastors and other leaders should be CALLING THE CHURCHES TO RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE OF THE HARBINGERS WITH REPENTANCE, PRAYER AND FASTING BEYOND ANY LEVEL OF COMMITMENT WE’VE EVER EVEN THOUGHT OF DOING BEFORE, instead of sitting back and ASSUMING we’re doomed. [Sigh. Feel I must add here, days later, that I’m again assailed with the doubt that this could happen without the interference of all the antichrist forces now occupying what used to be orthodox churches, even the inclusion of Mormons and the Pope, ai yi yi yi. How I wish we could have such prayer for revival and leave all of them out of it, or make prayer against them an effective part of it.]
Just have to post for the umpteenth time Jonathan Cahn’s talk on this from 2005 (I’d post the most recent one but it’s not available online:
Brother Dan, I’m obviously missing something here because I have no idea what you mean when you say:
“It is not I, who says it is a premillennial event, it is the Lord who says it… and he spells it out. The only way it could not be a premillennial event is if the word “before” does not mean “before”. If we can’t expect Scripture to mean what it says in plain language, then we might as well give up on it.”
Can you clarify? Thanks.
Charlie
Brother Dan, I hope that we’re not finished……………although perhaps you would prefer to call it quits??? I believe that you once observed here that “Charlie asks hard questions”. If they were easy, what would be the point?
Charlie,
The problem is that you don’t understand my answers, and it really looks to me that you don’t read my responses to you. So why should I take hours to write a response when it seems that I am wasting my time?
I’m writing this on my tablet, and it is limited, so I will leave it at that for now.
Dan
Pingback: Stars falling to earth? | housetops
Dan, since you finally responded to a post of mine that had been forgotten, I will resurrect an old question. Recall this question to you: “…how is it that you say that Joel is describing a premillennial event yet he clearly describes a functioning temple and priesthood recognized by Yahweh…?” I will hasten to add that this will not be the case until the Millennial Kingdom.
You have yet to respond to that particular query and I would be curious to hear your explanation.
Charlie
Charlie,
There is so much we need to discuss, and here’s the problem; If I get into a deep conversation late in the evening I have a hard time sleeping. This makes me dangerous the next day at work, since I work with dangerous, fast moving equipment. I have lost jobs for having too many accidents at work, so I need to be careful. I will, however attempt to answer your questions.
First, we need to start by defining “the Day of the Lord”. I don’t know how you define the day of the Lord, but I start with Moses;
Psalms 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
And with Peter, because he told us that Moses’ words are specifically related to the return of Christ;
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8
Note: the context of 2 Peter 3 is the End Times and the return of the Lord.
So, the day of the Lord is a thousand-year-day. Does that day start with the seven year Tribulation period? I think it does, and so the Day of the Lord is a Thousand year period that starts with the Tribulation Period, and ends with the destruction of the earth, and the dawning of the Day of God, the eternal state.
Now, as I have written over and over again, there is a period near the end of the Church-age, that looks like the Tribulation period. It looks so much like the Tribulation period that many professing Christians will stand up and affirm that it is The Tribulation Period. These Christians are false prophets, and though they say that Jesus is the Christ they will lead many astray because they are unable to discern the difference between a Satanic deception and the true Tribulation period.
This is directly related to your question.
The Psalm 83 war is a Church-age war that will occur while we are still here on this planet (unless we die first). The evidence is that many will time their “Tribulation” from this war. This war will see the destruction of the Arabs, and will end with a peace treaty between the Arabs and Israel, that will allow the Jews to rebuild the temple.
I am quite sure that a European leader will broker this peace treaty between Israel and the Arabs. This treaty will work for a time, and there will be peace between these two parties. This treaty will allow the Jews to rebuild the Temple. If this Temple is dedicated to the God of the bible, and follows His directions for its construction, why wouldn’t God acknowledge it?
Jesus did indeed acknowledge Herod’s Temple as God’s house, even though Herod was an unbeliever. The Tribulation Temple will also be destroyed, but it will serve as the Temple for a few years.
Getting back to the peace treaty, many “Christians” will point to the European leader as being the Antichrist, and the pope the false prophet, precisely because of their relationship to this treaty.
Later on, these men will be destroyed during the Gog and Magog war, which many will erroneously identify as the Tribulation. Will they be in Rome when they are destroyed? My guess is yes, and many will point to this event as being fulfilment of Revelation 17-18.
Here’s the thing; If Revelation 17-18 is over then the next thing on the horizon is the return of Christ, only this is not Revelation 17-18, but the final Church-age wars. Now will be the time that the real Antichrist will arise, only because they are looking for a Saviour, the world, in cluding many professing Christians, will accept him as being “in the spirit of Christ”.
He will reinstate the treaty from the Psalm 83 war, as being the basis for a new treaty. This is why it says that he will “confirm” a covenant. He will not originate it, but will use the one that identified someone else as the Antichrist.
All of this will take time, and this is why I depart from Dispensationalism on this point, and do not believe the rapture is imminent today. Nevertheless, I do believe the Rapture of the Believers is a pre-Tribulation event. I believe it will occur in the aftermath of the Gog and Magog war, just around the time the real Antichrist is rising. And yes, I believe the Temple will be rebuilt before that time.
now to Joel;
“And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” Joel 2:30-31
If the Day of the Lord is a thousand-year-day, that begins with the Tribulation and Armageddon, yet contains the millennial reign, then this event of Joel 2 must occur before that day, and must therefore occur during the Church-Age.
In Scripture when is says something “is as” something else, it is comparative. It is not meant to be taken literally. Joel 2:17 puts the earlier parts of the chapter into context;
Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
The invading armies earlier in the chapter are heathen nations, not the return of Christ and His armies. Yes the Lord calls these armies to Israel, and in this sense they are His, but he is bringing them against the mountains to Israel to destroy them. He is bringing them against Israel as a means whereby He will call back the scattered tribes of Israel from their diaspora.
The heathen are coming to rule over Jerusalem, but God will not allow it, and it says that the Day of the Lord is near earlier in the chapter as well as in verses 30-31.
Those statements bracket the whole chapter, and define the context of the events it describes. This is before the Day of the Lord, during the closing days of the Church-age.
I just bought a car from a Jewish guy who left Israel and came to Canada. I don’t know, but I think he is afraid of the Day of the Lord. And, he is not alone. In order to get the scattered Jews back to the land He has to let them think the Day of the Lord is not something they need to worry about. Satan is only quite eager to work up a deception for them, and God will use it for His own purposes.
Dan
Dan, I want to reply to one of your comments above. You wrote:
“First, we need to start by defining “the Day of the Lord”. I don’t know how you define the day of the Lord, but I start with Moses”
I absolutely agree. First, Gog Magog occurs at the end of the MK, according to Revelation 20. Joel makes it clear that Gog-Magog IS the Day of the LORD. It is the last event before we enter the eternal kingdom. It is Yahweh pouring out His wrath on an unbelieving world and the final destruction of Satan. I can’t make sense of Scripture any other way. You don’t agree, fine. We’ll see who was closer to right someday for sure.
Charlie
The problem I see is that you have the day of the Lord ending with Armageddon, and the destruction of the earth. This is not what Scripture teaches.
The context of Scripture starts the Day of the Lord with war and trouble, and the destruction of the followers of the Antichrist, then one thousand years of peace, and then a final rebellion of the descendants of those who are saved out of the Tribulation, at the second Gog and Magog war. This is then followed by the destruction of the earth and the dawning of “the Day of God” the eternal state.
The “Day of the Lord” is Jesus’ day. It is the day that He reigns alone on the earth for one thousand years. At that time the Father stays in Heaven, because there are still sinful, unredeemed men on earth. If He were here in person He would destroy them, so He stays away for mankind’s sake.
The Day of God, in contrast, is the eternal state, when God reigns as One.
Your view seems to ignore the statements of the destruction of the Day of the Lord.
18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. 19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. 20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? Amos 5:18-20
You are ignoring the clear teaching of Revelation 20 that Jesus will reign a thousand years. This does not mean an indefinite period of time, but literally a thousand years. It says so SIX times in this chapter. Your error is the same as the Amillennialists who say that a thousand years really means “an indefinite period of time”.
I can’t accept that non-logic. This is just an attack against Scripture. Ultimately it comes down to whether, or not, you believe God. Catholics do not… I do.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4
The millennium is not the eternal state, it is a thousand years on this earth… not the eternal earth.
Brother Dan, I’ve just scanned this response and it’s obvious that you’ve put some thought into it and are asking some of the right questions. I’m going to print it out and spend some time going through it and will get back to you on it either tomorrow or hopefully Tuesday at the latest. I appreciate your taking the time and effort to have a dialogue and hopefully we’re both heading in the right direction!
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
I would like to add verses 28-29;
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
The visions and dreams will come after this war, i.e. during the Tribulation period. We know that there will be no visions and dreams during the Millennial reign, for Jesus will be here in person. (See Zechariah 13:1-5) This again fits the idea that the events of Joel 2 are Pre-Tribulational and Pre-Millennial, in their timing.
I think that I would agree with you that the “northern army” in verse 20 is the Gog and Magog army of Ezekiel 38-39, but I believe the timing is a Church-age event. I think the internal evidence indicates this.
I also think that this chapter just might constitute the “hiss” of Zechariah 10:8. He will “hiss” for them and they will come. As I have noted elsewhere, the word “hiss” is not entirely friendly. His “hiss” is a call to them from between clenched teeth. He is actually calling them to the time of Jacob’s trouble, but they will take it as a friendly call, and they will take His assistance during this war as evidence that He is pleased with them, and their theology.
What is actually happening is that He is protecting them, even though He is still angry with them.
Shortly after this, the rapture will occur, and they will be called again. This time their jealousy will lead many of them to repent.
Take a look at this Dan:
‘Israel shutting down all of its embassies’:
Another harbinger?…
Pingback: The Tribulation Temple | housetops
First ‘Blood Moon’ early AM Passover Apr 15th. next Tuesday.
The Eclipse will occur during the early hours of Tuesday morning, peaking around 3:00am EDT. If I get up in the night, I may take a look outside to see if I can spot it.
I guess I would have to ask the “Blood Mooners”; How many significant dates are there in Israel’s history that did not occur at or around a “Blood Moon”? Stuff is always happening in that part of the world. How many wars has Israel fought? So if some of them are close to an eclipse, it does not mean that the eclipse was a “harbinger”.
Again, if someone, say an Arab terrorist, observes an eclipse, and decides to shoot some rockets at Israel in celebration, how is this a fulfilment of prophecy? Satan can easily move in the hearts of a group of Arab leaders to attack Israel. All this proves is that Satan is trying to manipulate history.
The context of Joel 2:31 is a war. The war is the cause of the “blood moon”. The dust and smoke from the bombs and burning buildings will dim the sun, cause the moon to look red, and make the stars fail to appear. I think that war will likely be the Psalm 83 war, but it will also occur as a result of the Ezekiel 38-39 war shortly before the Day of the Lord begins.
Dan
” The war is the cause of the “blood moon”. The dust and smoke from the bombs and burning buildings will dim the sun, cause the moon to look red, and make the stars fail to appear.”
Dan, u continue to place messages between the lines. Messages not there!…
Two faux pas!
1. No STARS mentioned here in this verse.
2. NO INDICATION THAT MAN will cause the blood moon.
Sorry bro but am giving up on you, U just don’t have your act together yet.
Dave,
Just a couple more thoughts;
You said: “Dan, u continue to place messages between the lines. Messages not there!…
Two faux pas!
1. No STARS mentioned here in this verse.
2. NO INDICATION THAT MAN will cause the blood moon.”
Notice Joel 2:10
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
As you said “No STARS mentioned here in this verse”, but all you have to do is go back a few verses to see the stars missing!
Again, all you have to do is go forward just a few verses to see the stars will be missing;
Joel 3:15
The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
One time he uses the word “darkened” and another time says “turned to blood”. It means the same thing. I have no evidence that Joel is not referring to the same phenomenon. This is a phenomenon repeated several times during the last days, and none of them are eclipses.
Notice that Joel 2:31 occurs AFTER the war of the early verses in the same chapter. I take it that the “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood” is a result of the war that has just occurred!
This is an example of how we are to read Scripture IN CONTEXT!
You have still failed to address how the sun is darkened during a lunar eclipse. While America will be seeing the eclipse, the sun will be shining brightly on the other side of the earth… not dimmed!
No, my friend. It is you who is reading things into Scripture that are not there! You and John Hagee. Hagee is a false teacher, and he is making a lot of money on his book.
As I said, however, I would not be surprised if something does occur around the time of this tetrad. Satan would take advantage of the superstitious nature of man if it would further his goals. He wants the people of the earth to believe the Tribulation is over at precisely the same moment that he is to unveil his Antichrist. To start a great war shortly after a tetrad just might further this goal of his; to deceive the whole world!
Dan
Dave, you have to compare Scripture with Scripture. You are taking this verse without comparing it with other verses on the same subject. You can find some of those verses in Matthew 24 and Acts 2.
As I have said, there will be a “decoy” Tribulation. This will be Satan’s attempt to duplicate the Tribulation as best he can, for the purpose of deceiving the world into thinking that the Tribulation is over. I would not be surprised if this event begins shortly, maybe just after this tetrad of eclipses , but this will not be THE Tribulation!
You are being set-up for a great deception!
Dan
Very well said. The. People should go back and check John Hagee “Jerusalem countdown” he was wrong then . He claim to have had inside information that war was going to take place within six months . In Daniel 12 it say “the wise will understand. They are the few, not the majority.
Dave,
One thing to consider is the fact that the 1948 “Blood Moon” actually occurred AFTER Israel became a nation, in 1949-1950. This was after the Arabs already had attacked, so could hardly be called a sign of anything!
The 1492 “Blood moons” occurred in 1493-1494, again, after the fact.
Second, I don’t think End Times prophetic signs are as easy to predict as eclipses.
The Blood moon in Joel 2 is a result of the war earlier in the chapter, not a sign of it. The smoke from burning cities, and perhaps even nuclear blasts, will make the moon look red, and the sun will be dimmed, and at the same time the stars will not be seen at all. It will be as if they had “fallen to the earth”.
Dan
Guess we’ll soon see since the last of this present tetrad is only about 17 months away.
Note that Columbus was a JEW and the 1492-3 epic was the escape of the Jews to the New World. The next tetrad was 1948-9 return to The Land, Next was Jerusalem return.
Note, each occurrence is more localized.
This present one could turn out to be the Temple return.
War is probably in the meme as well, during or post.
Israel is always involved in wars, and military expeditions.
I do expect the Psalm 83 war in the next few years, but considering there have only been three eclipse tetrads since Israel’s founding in 1848, I hardly think this is a sign of anything.
Having said that, I am quite sure Satan wants us to think it is a sign, so he is likely to do something.
Here is a list of wars, (from Wikipedia), in which Israel was involved;
1948 Arab–Israeli War (November 1947 – July 1949)
Reprisal operations (1950s – 1960s) – Military operations carried out by the Israel Defense Forces during the 1950s and 1960s.
Suez Crisis (October 1956) – A military attack on Egypt by Britain, France, and Israel, beginning on 29 October 1956, with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula and to take over the Suez Canal.
Six-Day War (June 1967) – Fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Algeria, and others also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces.
War of Attrition (1967–1970) – A limited war fought between the Israeli military and forces of the Egyptian Republic, the USSR, Jordan, Syria, and the Palestine Liberation Organization from 1967 to 1970.
Yom Kippur War (October 1973) – Fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War.
Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon (1971-1982) – PLO relocate to South Lebanon from Jordan and stage attacks on the Galilee and as a base for international operations. In 1978, Israel launches Operation Litani – the first Israeli large-scale invasion of Lebanon, which was carried out by the Israel Defense Forces in order to expel PLO forces from the territory. Continuing ground and rocket attacks, and Israeli retaliations, eventually escalate into the 1982 War.
1982 Lebanon War (1982) – Began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon to expel the PLO from the territory.
South Lebanon conflict (1982–2000) – Nearly 20 years of warfare between the Israel Defense Forces and its Lebanese proxy militias with Lebanese Muslim guerrilla, led by Iranian-backed Hezbollah, within what was defined by Israelis as the “Security Zone” in South Lebanon.
First Intifada (1987–1993) – First large-scale Palestinian uprising against Israel in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
Second Intifada (2000–2005) – Second Palestinian uprising, a period of intensified violence, which began in late September 2000.
2006 Lebanon War (summer 2006) –
Gaza War (December 2008 – January 2009) – Three-week armed conflict between Israel and Hamas during the winter of 2008–2009.
Operation Pillar of Defense (November 2012) – Military offensive on the Gaza Strip.[1]
So, Israel’s history is one of continued conflict, with or without tetrads of eclipses.
My biggest problem with the “eclipse as blood moon” interpretation is this; “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” Matthew 4:4
Every word matters, not just general thoughts. If every word of the passage is not fulfilled, then the passage itself is not fulfilled!
Joel 2:10 and 3:15, Mattew 24:29, and Mark 13:25, indicate that the “blood moon” phenomenon will be linked with a disappearance of the stars, and every related passage indicates that the sun will be dimmed at the same time as the “blood moon”. This clearly indicates an atmospheric phenomenon, not an eclipse.
The idea that an eclipse is fulfilment of these passagess came to us from Jewish rabbis. Now, if they got the Messiah wrong, then what are the chances that they will get lesser signs correctly?
No doubt we are in the general time frame of the End of the Age, and things are heating up. All I am saying is that none of these events are related to eclipses. God had something else in mind when he made those prophecies.
If it only came from one source I would seriously doubt it but the blood moon thesis is now
juxtaposed with Jonathan Cahn’s predictions as well. Sept 28th, 2015 isn’t that far away
so we’ll soon see.
Aside from all that there’s probably another war on the Israeli (and US) on the horizon.
And noting all of Israel’s history with warfare, the Old Testament certainly clarifies that.
And the US has probably had as many conflicts in recent yrs as Israel if you count episodes like Chile-Allende , Iran-Contra, Russ-Afghanistan, etc etc etc.
And of course what we just did by overthrowing the current legitimately elected ‘sovereign’
govt of of Ukraine???!!!!. Talk about blood on our hands…