Is the Gazprom deal the hook in Gog’s jaws?

(Israel playing with fire in Gazprom deal)

Russian state-owned energy giant, Gazprom, is bidding for a stake in Israel’s Leviathan natural gas field. At present this is the favoured bid.

Is the Gazprom deal the “hook” in the Russian leader’s jaw?

The cost of the partnership will be a 30% stake in the gas produced.

During the last decade or so, Russia has become the number one source of natural gas for Europe. This gives them tremendous economic, as well as political, clout. With Israel’s natural gas find, they have found their geopolitical influence to be in jeopardy, but with a stake in Israel’s gas, they will have secured their dominant position.

Or so they think.

As one report has put it, “Has Russia sold out Iran for a stake in Israeli gas?”  Russia is primarily concerned with Russia’s power and influence. As usual, they will back away from their “friends” if there is a chance to increase their influence.  (We shouldn’t be shocked at this kind of behavior, as we have seen the same thing with the USA, as far back as Carter’s betrayal of the Shaw of Iran, in 1979, and with Obama’s betrayal of Mubarak as well.)

As I see it, this agreement, if it transpires, will only be temporary. Russia may believe that they will be able to push Israel around, if they are involved in this deal. They may, to a certain extent, but there is only so much pressure Israel will take before they will push back.

This deal may go a long way to explaining why Russia is not listed among the antagonists of the Psalm 83 conflict. If they are on friendly terms with Israel at the time, and in the process of developing the Leviathan gas fields, they will sit it out when the Arabs attack, not wishing to jeopardize their financial interests.

There will be a time of peace between the Psalm 83 war and the Ezekiel 38-39 wars. During this time Israel will become an economic powerhouse. I think the evidence is that some time during this period, the Gazprom deal will go sour.

Many have noted that the coalition which will attack Israel, during the Gog and Magog war, will include both Russia and Iran, so their falling-out will only be temporary. One of the reasons given in Ezekiel for this attack is economic, so it appears that Russia will feel that they have a right to Israel’s wealth;

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil? Ezekiel 38:10-13

The motivation (the hook) in the mind of the leader of this attack is purely greed, in contrast to the religious motives of his companions. I think the Gazprom deal will play a part in his rationalization. If Russia helps Israel develop the Leviathan field, and then sometime later is cut out of the deal, they will think they have a right to attack to grab some of that wealth for themselves.

The failure of the Gazprom deal may well be the hook that God puts in the jaws of the Russian leader!

And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Ezekiel 38:4

So, who is behind the deal, and who will be behind its failure?  God, of course.  And, because the leaders of these countries don’t read the bible, they will be totally in the dark as to what their role is, or what their fate will be.

Yes indeed, we are seeing the fulfilment of biblical prophecy in our daily news!

Shalom,

Dan Knezacek

For further reading;

Gazprom bids highest for Leviathan partnership

Asia Times Gazprom seeks Israeli gas

Has Russia sold out Iran for a stake in Israeli gas?

http://www.omegaletter.com/articles/articles.asp?ArticleID=7472

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About dknezacek

An average, ordinary guy. Author, husband, father, pilot, aircraft builder, test pilot, machinist, artist, just ordinary stuff that lots of people do. Don't forget bible student. Dan's passion is bible study, especially including the End Times prophecies.
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21 Responses to Is the Gazprom deal the hook in Gog’s jaws?

  1. Sheryl says:

    Dan, this is jaw-dropping! The body language between the two men is stunning too – way friendlier than Obama’s body language, and the last time Bibi was in the US, he was dissed by Obama! With Russia involved, I seriously doubt that Bibi will give a hoot what Obama thinks – I don’t think he does now….

    Of course, we are still reeling from the loss of the election to Obama, and beyond all doubts, there was a lot of fraud involved, but the Lord allowed this as continued judgment on America – now we have less than two years to accept a RFID chip, and that isn’t going to happen for a big group of Christians, so if the Lord tarries much longer, we will be heading for parts unknown until that trumpet sounds!

    • dknezacek says:

      When I wrote this post I was thinking that it is a trap for Israel, which it is, but it is more of a trap for Russia.

      Like a fish taking a worm, Russia will swallow a hook that God has set for them.

      If you think about it, with all of the pogroms Russia enacted against the Jews, over many hundreds of years, Russia owes Israel a lot, whether they think so or not!

      I’m sorry about the elections in the US. I was shocked to see that Obama got 108% of the vote in some places! That kind of thing used to only happen in third world countries, and Russia!

      Maybe it’s time you moved to Canada? Seriously though, if God’s judgment is coming against the USA, it won’t be far behind in Canada. Stephen Harper has been good for Canada, and for Israel, but if he loses the next election, we have a lot of left-wing politicians who would be happy to follow in Obama’s footsteps.

  2. Charlie says:

    This is certainly reflective of the opinion of the vast majority of Bible prophecy commentators which is that the Gog-Magog invasion of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is a premillennial event, regardless of the fact that Revelation chapter 20 clearly places this invasion at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. What I find interesting is that nowhere is there a remotely detailed theory of how such an invasion could be carried out from a military perspective in light of modern intelligence capabilities and with even tiny little Israel having it’s own military spy satellite. This incredibly massive movement of men and materials is clearly described in Ezekiel as a “surprise attack”, which in the technological days in which we now live is nonsense. I’ve been to Israel, from the Dead Sea in the south to within sight of Mt. Hermon in the north, and although tiny in comparison with most modern nations, I can’t imagine assemblying an army today which could literally “cover the land like a cloud” yet could approach the nation relatively undetected. Truthfully, this hardly scratches the surface of the evidence in Ezekiel 38 and 39 which, if honestly investigated in the context within which the prophecy was received, unequivocably points to a postmillennial event exactly as Revelation 20 describes it. JMO

    Charlie

  3. dknezacek says:

    Charlie,

    I don’t believe this is the majority opinion. I have heard some say that the Gog/Magog war is a mid-Tribulation event. I have also heard the opinion that this occurs at the end of the millennial reign. I began saying that this war is a Church-age event when I first published The Spirit of Prophecy almost two years ago, and since then I have heard a couple others agree with me. I’m not sure I originated the idea, I think Grant Jefferey may have come up with it, but it has not been common until recently.

    This cannot be the same war as Revelation 20 for a number of reasons. One of these is that Israel will burn the weapons of the enemy armies for seven years. If this was the war of Revelation 20 that would mean that Israel would burn those weapons into the Eternal State. Such an idea is impossible!

    Secondly, in verse 25 of Ezekiel 39 God says He will bring back Israel now to the land. Will He bring them back to the land after the millennial reign is over? No. They will return to the land BEFORE the millennium begins, not at its end!

    God is the one putting the hook into the jaw of Gog. (Gog is a position, not a name, probably the president of Russia, or maybe the president of a block of nations of whom Russia is a part.)

    Elsewhere God says that Israel will dwell safely during the millennial reign, and those who gather against her at the end of that time will come “but not by me”. So, God brings the armies of the Ezekiel war, but not the armies of the Rev. 20 war. That’s a huge difference.

    11 “O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. 12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. 13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. 14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. 15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake”. Isaiah 54:11-15

    This is a different war, though the same nation will be at the lead. In 1,000 years Russia will learn nothing!

    Your idea about a “surprise attack” is noted, but you are failing to understand that things are about to change dramatically. First, before the Gog/Magog war occurs, the Psalm 83 war will come about.

    This war will change everything.

    It is likely that Israel will use nuclear devices in that conflict, and this will be the time that Damascus will be flattened. Lebanon will burn, and one of the cities of Egypt will be called “the city of Destruction”.

    In the aftermath of that war everything will change. It could very well be that spy satellites will be eliminated as a part of the treaty to end the war. Maybe the use of nuclear devices in the Psalm 83 conflict will cause an EMP that puts Israel’s satellites out of service, and in the peace that follows they may forget to send up new ones.

    Israel will likely be convinced to give up her nuclear weapons, because of the suffering that they have caused, and maybe Europe will guarantee her safety as an inducement to get them to do so. Maybe Russia will come up with some sort of “cloaking device”. I’m not sure, but I can say that surprise has not been eliminated as a factor in war, just yet.

  4. Charlie says:

    Brother Dan, I always appreciate your cordial and thoughtful responses to my comments on your blog. I’ve pondered how I should respond to your comments here and feel somewhat conflicted. You’ve written pretty much nothing here that I haven’t encountered in one form or another in the past but I have no interest in starting a debate, and I have a feeling that you probably have no such interest either. Believe me, you have no idea how much time and energy I have spent over the past five to ten years in studying this prophecy in particular. I know the text of Ezekiel 38 and 39 “like the back of my hand”, as the saying goes. I have accumulated dozens of articles and papers on the subject over time, many written by me personally as well as by various other commentators and exegetes. For me, no meaningful discussion on the subject can be entered into without first establishing the context in which the prophecy was received and conveyed to the exiles in Babylon. I have no idea of the degree to which you understand this context nor the extent to which it informs your personal interpretation of the passage, and that for me is absolutely critical. If you have any interest, I have previously composed a discussion of this subject in particular and would be glad to share the substance of it with you and your other visitors upon request.

    We are much alike in that we each have developed our own prophetic scheme for the prophesied events of these last days in which we live (which are worlds apart, by the way) and are not particularly impressed by theories and speculation of others when they don’t agree with our own, or at least that is how I would label myself. From my perspective, the subject is so vast and our positions are so far apart that I wouldn’t know where to even begin a serious discussion of these matters.

    That said, I will politely bow out of this discussion unless you have a particular point that you would care to pursue. Take my word for it, you would be hard pressed to come up with any subject concerning Bible prophecy about which I would not have an opinion of one sort or another!

    Blessings!!!

    Charlie

  5. Sheryl says:

    Dan, I believe as you do, and have long before I found your blog. There will be another Gog and Magog War at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, right before the Great White Throne judgment, but of course, it will be a short war lol! I’m waiting now, very anxiously although trying not to be, for The Psalms 83 War, and I believe it’s soon – has to be!

  6. dknezacek says:

    Hi Sheryl,

    Up until the mid’90s I had never heard that the Gog/Magog war could actually be a Church-age event. I was at a conference with Grant Jefferey and one of his comments hit me. He said “Satan always has his counterfeits”, in the context of the Gog/Magog war.

    At that point I realized that the Gog/Magog war will be used as a counterfeit Armageddon by Satan. He can’t control when it occurs, but when it does he has an alternate explanation for the unbelieving masses. It is in his interest to have people misinterpret that war. If the Antichrist is set to arise shortly afterwards, Satan must make people believe this war is Armageddon.

    This is the danger of your idea Charlie, because you are convinced the Gog/Magog war must occur at the end of the millennial reign, then should it occur during the Church age, you will be predisposed to think it is something else. If you think it is Armageddon you will be predisposed to believe the Antichrist has come “in the spirit of Christ”, as most of the professing Church will believe.

    As for “context” you have to realize that “context” in Scripture does not only mean the verse before, and the verse after, but the context of the whole bible. There are many passages where “context” changes within the passage. Zechariah 11 contains a series of prophecies that switch forward and backward in time, several times. God not only intended His prophecies for the people of the immediate context, but for people of all time.

    God knew that the generation living at the time would shortly die.

    • Sheryl says:

      Hi Dan! I can see how folks could misunderstand that Gog/Magog is Armageddon – I remember when many Christian Americans, freaked out over the Iraqi War, and thought it was Armageddon! If we aren’t clear on the sequence of events, there is going to be confusion, and Satan is counting on that!

  7. Charlie says:

    “If we aren’t clear on the SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, there is going to be confusion, and Satan is counting on that!” Amen to that, Sheryl!

    Pursuing this line of reasoning further, I will suggest that NO prophetic scenario of these last days can be complete or accurate unless it accurately describes and takes into account essentially every major prophecy pertaining to this period of time. In this regard, brother Dan, I would be most interested in your opinion as to where the invasion of the great “Northern” army of the book of Joel fits into your prophetic scheme? If you can correctly interpret this great prophecy, I will be highly impressed!

    Charlie

  8. dknezacek says:

    Hi Charlie,

    I am not sure that any scenario will be complete until the End Times events are upon us/them. (I am hoping not to be here during the Tribulation part of those events…Yes, I am pre-Trib)

    This does not mean that partial scenarios can’t be accurate as far as they go. I can’t say I know everything about the End Times events, but I do think the Lord has led me to a greater understanding of those events than He has to many who have gone before. I also believe He is leading others, like Sheryl, on a parallel path.

    What about Scofield, or Darby, or Pseudo-Ephriam? They were all correct to a certain degree, but the Lord had not revealed everything to them. When they trusted in the Lord, they got it right, but when they leaned on their own understanding they made mistakes.

    Don’t forget that even Paul did not have a complete understanding of the End Times. If he had then there would have been no need for the Lord to inspire the Apocalypse.

    I am still learning, however, and am not adamant that my ideas cannot be corrected. Funny thing though, in spite of my challenges, no-one has yet been able to prove me wrong by the KJV. Some have SAID I am wrong, but they have universally failed to prove it by the Scriptures. They just get mad and walk away in a huff! (If you use the “Message” bible (Massage?) as your standard, then everything I have said is wrong!)

    As to your question about the northern army of Joel, I will have to do some more study and get back to you. It has been a while since I have read through Joel.

    Shalom,

    Dan

  9. Charlie says:

    “As for “context” you have to realize that “context” in Scripture does not only mean the verse before, and the verse after, but the context of the whole bible. ” Brother Dan, you get a hearty amen from me to that statement.

    However, I will suggest that in determining “context”, you begin with the immediate and then work your way out. So please, if you will, all I am asking from you here is a brief synopsis of the immediate context in which the Gog-Magog prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39 was received by the prophet and delivered to the exiles It is plainly stated in the book of Ezekiel, if one takes the time and effort to understand it, and I will assure you, no serious study of this passage can afford to ignore it.
    Charlie

  10. Charlie says:

    “I am still learning, however, and am not adamant that my ideas cannot be corrected. Funny thing though, in spite of my challenges, no-one has yet been able to prove me wrong by the KJV. Some have SAID I am wrong, but they have universally failed to prove it by the Scriptures.”

    Brother Dan, words can’t express how much I appreciate the humble spirit shown in your last post! None of us have all of the answers and I know I probably come across as arrogant often times. You put me to shame….in a good way!!!

    I am missing something here. Can you just briefly tell me what you mean about “proving you wrong” by the KJV? Prove you wrong about what? I do love a challenge!

    Charlie

  11. dknezacek says:

    Hi Charlie,

    Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted me to find the context of Joel’s Northern army. by the way the army in Joel 2 is an army of insects that eat the crops.

    Chapter 8 is a study of marriage, divorce and polygamy. In it I examined what the law of Moses says about this subject, and show that the bible is not opposed to polygamy, from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus never contradicted Moses’ statements on either divorce or polygamy. Most Christians believe He did, but his statements are in line with the written Word of God, including the Law.

    What is actually preached in most protestant, and catholic churches, on this subject actually has its origin in pagan Rome, not the bible.

    In fact I have shown that there is an End Times tie-in regarding this subject. It so amazes me that no one has seen this before, but if you compare Daniel 11: 37 to Isaiah 4:1 you will see that what I am saying is true.

    36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. Daniel 11:36-37

    Now compare the phrase “the desire of women” to the desire of women as expressed in Isaiah 4:1

    1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. 2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. Isaiah 4:1

    This has a direct tie-in with the subject we are talking about; the Ezekiel 38-39 war.

    In the KJV the casualty rate is noted in this war. The rate of five out of six soldiers dead will verify that this has actually been the Gog/Magog war. As they are mainly Muslims they will return home expecting to be able to marry in a ratio of six women to one man.

    “And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:” Ezekiel 39:2

    The Antichrist will be rising at this time and he will most likely be appointed as a governor of these nations during their rebuilding, after their spectacular defeat. He will overturn their ancient tradition of allowing one man to marry several women. This is what Daniel is talking about in 11:37.

    These Muslim women will have the same desire as women of all time, including the women of the early part of the millennial reign of Christ. Whereas, Jesus will allow men to marry up to seven women at one time, the Antichrist will prohibit this practice!

    In the western world, this change in the Muslim world will be hailed as evidence that they are turning to Christianity, and that the Antichrist is a Christian! In actual fact he is doing the opposite that Jesus will do in a very similar situation!

    This understanding does not rely solely on the Ezekiel account, but I think it is very closely related. Some have been very angry over my findings on this subject, including some close relatives, who claim to be Christians. I’m afraid that they will be predisposed to support the Antichrist because of this very subject!

    Now you asked about the context of this passage. I believe the context is embedded in the passage;

    “After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.” Eze. 38:8

    The context is “after many days” and “in the latter years”. In other words this passage is an End Times passage. Israel shall be mostly brought out of the nations and shall be dwelling safely. They will not all be brought back, however, for 9:25 declares that now the final remnants of Israel will return. I think this is because they now believe the Time of Jacobs trouble is over, when in reality it has not yet begun!

    Given the weeks news, This war is not imminent! Israel can not be considered living safely when 500 rockets are landing on their cities in two days! From its founding in 1948 until today Israel has not dwelt safely. There will be a time of real peace and prosperity for Israel and the Arabs, before the Gog and Magog war comes about.

    I really think the context of the passage is that they will be dwelling safely in the aftermath of the Psalm 83 war (Asaph’s war). In that war Damascus will be flattened (Isaiah 17:1), Lebanon will burn (Zechariah 10:10 -11:3) and a city in Egypt (probably Cairo) will be called “the city of destruction” (Isaiah 19:18).

    I am aware that some do not agree that these are all results of the same war, but I beg to differ. Israel will dwell safely, because the local Muslims will have been so humiliated in the Psalm 83 war that they will sue for peace, and will keep their agreement. (a first for the Arabs)

    I believe that the agreement that comes about in the aftermath of Asaph’s war will serve as the basis for the agreement that the Antichrist agrees to, several years later at the end of the Gog/Magog war, and the beginning of the Tribulation. In other words he will not originate the “covenant” but will only “confirm it”. (Daniel 9:27)

    I also think that the European leader who assists Israel in brokering this agreement with the Arabs, will be fingered as “the Antichrist”! This poor dictator will be ultimately destroyed in the opening stages of the Gog/Magog war, and the world will breathe a sigh of relief, thinking the Antichrist is dead.

    If I am correct then the rapture is not imminent, and will not be so until the Gog/Magog war is over. And yet, I am still a pre-Tribulationist. There will be signs before the rapture, but this does not mean that anyone knows the day not the hour.

    So, there you have it. I am aware that these ideas are controversial and I am waiting for someone to prove me wrong by the KJV. By the way, I have provided much more documentation for all of these points in The Spirit of Prophecy. Of course If people can’t prove me wrong they ought to join me!

    God bless,

    Dan

  12. Sheryl says:

    Hi Dan!
    I certainly concur with you on every point you’ve made; however, I’m hoping and praying that the Rapture is sooner rather than later. Beyond all doubts, this information concerning the Rapture, has given me a feeling of urgency to document my husband’s and my Jewish heritage – I’ve been dragging my feet for years on this :/ After the coming Psalms 83 War, we may be a lot safer in Israel than in the US; please pray for the Lord’s will for us in this endeavor. Lord bless you, Dan!

  13. Charlie says:

    Dan says:
    “Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted me to find the context of Joel’s Northern army. by the way the army in Joel 2 is an army of insects that eat the crops.”

    Brother Dan, the phrase “Day of the LORD” appears a total of 15 times in the text of the Old Testament. It appears five times in the book of Joel, which is more than any other book of the OT. Surely you are not asserting that the “Day of the LORD” is “an army of insects that eat the crops”, are you? To be clear as to what this book is really describing, the “Northern” army of Joel is the Gog Magog invasion of Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20, which occurs at the end of the Millennial Kingdom and describes, among other things, the final destruction of Satan.
    We know that Joel’s invasion occurs during the MK because of, among other things, the following statement in Joel 2:3:
    “A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: THE LAND IS AS THE GARDEN OF EDEN before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.” (KJV)
    And when does the land of Israel become “like the Garden of Eden”? We find that out in Ezekiel 36:35 which is clearly to be fulfilled in the MK:
    Ezekiel 36:
    33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
    34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become LIKE THE GARDEN OF EDEN; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. (KJV)

    Tell me, when we allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, what does the phrase “recesses of the North” pertain to? Here are the clues. This two-word Hebrew phrase appears only five times in the OT. They are Psalms 48:2, Isaiah 14:13, Ezekiel 38:6, 15, and 39:2. Isaiah 14:13 is the key, if you can discern it. One final hint, in Ezekiel 38:15, the LORD is taunting Gog when He says “Your Place”, referring to “the recesses of the North” exactly as He taunted Lucifer in Isaiah 14:13-15:

    Isaiah 14:
    13 “But you said in your heart,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven;
    I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
    And I will sit on the mount of assembly
    IN THE RECESSES OF THE NORTH
    14 ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
    I will make myself like the Most High.’
    15 “Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol,
    TO THE RECESSES OF THE PIT.

    What I so often find is that folks don’t have all that much difficulty determining what the Biblical text actually says, but when it seems to disagree with their pet theories, they can’t bring themselves to actually believe it.

    BTW, we most certainly do agree on one thing. I believe that you assert that the rapture is not “imminent” in the sense that no prophesied events must occur before the rapture can occur and I am in hearty agreement. 2 Thess. 2 makes it clear that the rapture cannot occur before the “man of sin” is revealed, and that has not yet occurred.

    Charlie

  14. dknezacek says:

    Hi Charlie,

    There are many places in Scripture where context makes a sudden jump mid-passage. In Isaiah 3, it begins with Israel before their dispersion, but by the time you get to the end of the chapter it has jumped to Armageddon. I cannot say where the jump occurs. It appears that the passage was meant to have a dual meaning from the beginning. The sins that caused Israel’s dispersion will still be practiced up until Armageddon begins.

    I see the same type of thing in Joel 2. At times it is talking about their ancient sins that angered the Lord some 2700 years ago, and then it slips seamlessly into the context of the End Times. Therefore I believe that part of the passage is indeed speaking about plagues of insects that ate the crops around the time of their dispersion.

    You are indeed correct that the rest of the passage is referring to the Gog and Magog war. I still disagree with you on the timing of that war. Note that it says this will happen BEFORE the day of the Lord.

    “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” Joel 2:31

    Other times it says this phenomenon will occur

    “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
    And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?” Joel 2:10-11

    This earlier verse seems to indicate a later time. This IS the day of the Lord. Yet later he says it is “near”. I believe the evidence is that not all prophecies are ordered chronologically.

    14 “Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is NEAR in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.” Joel 3:14-15

    I think this is probably three separate events, not one event noted three times. Two of them are BEFORE the day of the Lord. I think these two events are the Psalm 83 war, and the Gog/Magog war. The first will cause this phenomenon because of the nuclear devices going off in Damascus, Cairo, Lebanon and other places. The second will occur because of the celestial bombardment against Gog’s armies. The third will occur during the tribulation itself as a result of Armageddon.

    Then you have to decide how we define the “day of the Lord”. Is it the Tribulation plus the Millennial reign, is it the second half of the Tribulation plus the Millennial reign, or is it only the Millennial reign? I tend to think it is the full Tribulation plus the millennial reign. This then would give us one week for fleshly humanity, in God’s days, with the last “day” being the Shabbat rest for the saints.

    I hope this hasn’t been too dis-jointed. Remember Jesus said that man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word of God. One little word, like “before”, or “near”, can change the context by several years.

    God bless,

    Dan

  15. Charlie says:

    Brother Dan, I can get lost in some of these discussions and have read something that you have posted, but then forget it in some future discussion. I just read again something that you wrote in your preceding post where you said:

    “Then you have to decide how we define the “day of the Lord”. Is it the Tribulation plus the Millennial reign, is it the second half of the Tribulation plus the Millennial reign, or is it only the Millennial reign? I tend to think it is the full Tribulation plus the millennial reign. This then would give us one week for fleshly humanity, in God’s days, with the last “day” being the Shabbat rest for the saints.”

    I feel embarassed that I’ve continued “harrassing” you to give me a succinct description of your best guess as to when the Day of the LORD occurs and there it is where it’s been all the time. Mea Culpa! Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t agree with you, but that is a very satisfactory answer to my question.

    So, since I’m already here, I think that I’ll post another issue for your consideration and comment, if you feel moved to provide one:

    Ezekiel 38:11
    and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of un-walled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, ALL OF THEM LIVING WITHOUT WALLS AND HAVING NO BARS OR GATES,
    (NASB)
    “Israel’s Separation Barrier, dubbed the “Apartheid Wall” or “Berlin Wall” by Palestinians, has increasingly attracted international media attention, largely due to the hard-to-ignore scale of the project.
    The most obvious historical parallel to the barrier is the Berlin Wall, which was 96 miles long (155 kilometers). Israel’s barrier, still under construction, is expected to reach at least 403 miles in length (650 kilometers). The average height of the Berlin Wall was 11.8 feet (3.6 metres), compared with the maximum* current height of Israel’s Wall — 25 feet (8 metres).
    Israel’s barrier is therefore planned to be four times as long and in places twice as high as the Berlin Wall.” This short article is found here on the Internet:
    http://electronicintifada.net/content/it-fence-it-wall-no-its-separation-barrier/4715

    I believe that I can correctly assert that the majority opinion of contemporary dispensational scholars and exegetes is that Ezekiel’s Gog-Magog war is a premillennial event, as directly contrary to the Revelation 20 Gog-Magog war that clearly occurs at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. In order to reach a reasonable and Biblically supported theory of the timing of Ezekiel’s Gog-Magog invasion, the precise wording of the Hebrew text of Ezekiel 38 and 39 must first be determined, allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture. Having done that, it seems indisputable to me that the most logical and accurate method for determining the timing of the event would be the one that most closely conforms with the specific wording of the Hebrew text.

    However, from my perspective after reading countless articles and books that address Ezekiel’s Gog-Magog war, logic and common sense seem to play little if any part in the process of interpretation and exegesis of this particular passage. I never cease to be amazed at what I consider almost silly speculation as to how the precise wording of the text can be massaged and manipulated to accommodate a space age reality of technology and weaponry that was undreamed of 2,500 years ago. One of the most absurd, for me at least, items that must be re-interpreted in light of the actual circumstances in Israel today is Ezekiel 38:11, which I’ve quoted above. I have seen several well known scholars and commentators who argue that modern Israel fits the conditions described in this verse. If one simply reads a daily newspaper, he should be aware that Israel today is not living in that kind of security in any way, shape, or form. My wife and I have personally seen the “Wall of Separation” that Israel has built and have traversed it when being bused from Jerusalem to Palestinian controlled Bethlehem and back. IMHO, that alone makes a mockery of any effort to describe modern Israel as “living without walls and having no bars or gates”. I ask you to honestly tell me, which makes better sense if one takes the LORD at His Word and believes what His Word actually says, a premillennial or a postmillennial fulfillment of Ezekiel 38-39, especially considering that Revelation 20:7-8 specifically states that this event will occur at the end of the Millennial Kingdom ?

    Revelation 20:7-8
    7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
    8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, GOG AND MAGOG, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

    Maranatha!

    Charlie

  16. dknezacek says:

    Hi Charlie,
    Yes, I agree to a point. There is no way that the Israel of 2012 can fulfill the conditions of Ezekiel 38! On this you are absolutely correct.

    I did say that I believe the Psalm 83 war comes before theGog/Magog war didn’t I? I believe this war answers the question you are posing.

    During the Psalm 83 war, I believe the evidence is that Israel will be forced to use their nuclear devices on several Arab cities. Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Cairo (Isaiah 19:17-18), and Lebanon (Zechariah 11:1) will suffer the same fate of utter destruction. I don’t think the destruction will be limited to those cities, but other Arab cities, such as Riyadh, Baghdad, Mecca, and Medina, will suffer the same fate.

    In the Spirit of Prophecy, I did an in-depth analysis of the combatants of the Psalm 83 war, and came to the conclusion that none of these nations are involved in the attack of Ezekiel 38-39. In fact some of the Psalm 83 combatants are actually mentioned in the Ezekiel account as “Sheba, Dedan, and Tarshish”, and they actually protest the attack! These are all Arab entities, and today if Iran and Russia were to attack Israel, they would join in with glee!

    There is no hint of this protest in the Revelation 20 war. In fact by the time of that war, Edom, Moab and Ammon will no longer exist.

    If you ever listen to Jimmy DeYoung of Prophecy Today, you will notice that he is still saying that the Ezekiel 38-39 war is a Tribulation event! In fact he also says that the Psalm 83 war is going to occur during the Tribulation!

    Considering that the first three and a half years of the Tribulation are relatively calm, I can’t see there being enough time for these two wars, plus Armageddon, in a seven year timeline! There certainly isn’t enough time for three major wars, plus the rebuilding of the Temple, in such a short span of time!

    I think the major event that most have missed is the Psalm 83 war. This explains the peace that Israel is living in at the beginning of the Gog/Magog attack. It also explains when the Temple will be rebuilt…in the peace time between Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38. There is a real possibility that the Arabs themselves may be responsible for the destruction of the Dome of the Rock during that war, with a stray SCUD missile.

    As for the security fence, how long did it take to remove the Berlin wall? After the Psalm 83 war, when the Arabs sue for peace, that fence can come down in a matter of days.

    Go do a study of the Psalm 83 war. Search this site for articles on that war as well. I think you will find that I am correct, that this war will come ahead of the Ezekiel 38-39 war by some years, and both are pre-Tribulation/Church age events.

    All the best,

    Dan

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